Official: CyCon negotiations

[Snowflake]

We already have all the commlink right?

[Googlie]

Correct. At the opening of the current (2144) turn, the Hive possesses all commlinks

G.

[Jamski]

Well, the CyCon don't know that, do they? Unless they tried to trade them to us already.

OK, lets call a council pretty soon then. The Drones will vote for us, we will vote for ourselves and the CyCon too. I should check if we have enough votes yet...

-Jam

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by buster
btw - current plan is to change from FM to planned next turn (2144 our turn - just before 2145 yours). This should cause an immediate pop increase on the following turn of about 6 and will enable us to pop boom bases with creches. Estimate an average growth of not less than 5 per turn - until we stabilize for a while around size 65 or so. We have a couple of new bases coming shortly too.

Estimate we will surpass Angels in size year 2147 - maybe 2148 meaning you should be able to call an election that will have you & us as candidates either on your turn 2148 or 2149. Btw around 2151 we expect to bigger than you

We will take a research and income hit in the first years from lowered energy & lowered trade-income but as we grow and particularly after bases start hitting size 5 and we can start allocating scientists (or whatever it is their name is) we should quickly be back to or faster than the current level.

[Snowflake]

In other words, we could call an election on 2148 even if we don't have anybody support us. Although CC and PEACE votes could make sure it's us not drones to be the governor but if it is the drone we still gets the infiltration although the commerce income would be nice too.

[Snowflake]

Sorry forget to post this, posted by Function DBTS in embassy:

the message is relaided to CyCon high command, CyCon council and CyCon national broadcast functions...standby for reply

[Jamski]

Let's try and get US not the Drones as Gov'nor, ok? I think we want to be the STRONG half of the equal team

-Jam

[Snowflake]

From buster Nov 22:

got this and my reply:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi -

Had you told us you had it - we would have informed you. It was somewhat surprising (and an annoying waste) to see it already in your hands.

I need to consult with the group but I believe we can agree to a non-proliferation treaty.

You will get final confirmation in a day or so.

As far as trading goes we dont have any new techs beyond this one. IIRC the tradeable ones were the ones already offered (eth calc & some earlier ones). I will give you an exact list when I get back to you.

regards
buster

Maniac wrote on Sunday, 23rd November 2003 01:16:49:
Greetings most honoured Foremen Buster, Mongoose and Jtsisyoda,

It has been a while since we last talked. Due to the decrease in activity our External Affairs Office has been more or less inoperational. For that reason only now we noticed you have knowledge of High Energy Chemistry. That is a very dangerous technological field, and treated with utmost care and secrecy (as far as possible) in the Consciousness. After all, it has far-reaching military consequences, and could destabilize the world if everyone had access to it.

For that reason the External Affairs Functionality was wondering if you would be willing to sign a non-proliferation agreement regarding High Energy Chemistry? We would then both agree not to trade or gift HEC to other factions, unless we mutually agree to do so. Our analyses indicate that such a deal would lead to a safer and more secure world for the both of us.

Btw, are there any techs we can trade? It's a pity we didn't know you could acquire HEC. Otherwise we would have gladly traded it with you, and wouldn't have lost an opportunity for cooperation.

Greetings,

Mani Alpha-3
Second Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

Besides our group needing to agree - it of course requires Hives agreement too. I believe however it would be in our best interest to make this non-proliferation treaty.

Keeping Uni from trading HEC means we will almost certainly get to MMI before them and will go a long way in ensuring the invasion goes as planned.

I am even willing to make the treaty with the agreement between the two of us that I will break it any time you require it from us. I hope you won't make me - but if you do I will, excusing myself with presuure from you.

Once we give you the tech Cycon will however undoubtedly put it on the "open market", so my advice is that we agree the treaty and that you delay getting it until either Cycon breaks the treaty, one of the others get it by normal reasearch or you really need it.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by HongHu

The Hive has not had many discussions about the game yet. So I'm not sure what our near term and long term plan is. (Like if we are going to war with uni or roze soon.) But regarding the HEC trade, I've talked to Kody and we think that since you are currently beelining to air power and we restriction lifting, I don't think we need to get the tech if we could get a prototyped unit. In fact we have already mentioned to CC that we would like to trade with them of some prototyped unit such as +3 attack. So you should be ok going into no trading HEC agreement with CC. You may know better than I about whether it's good to mention the possible prototype trading. I'll try to start some game related discussions in the Hive and hopefully we would have more to tell you.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by buster

We could send you the proto.

Drones will go after Uni very soon after getting MMI. They seem close enough that an assault can be simply airborne drop & chop meaning it will be quick and brutal if they have not prepared defenses very well (going in with 20 or more units - probably three turns after the start of the attack they are dead).

You contributing units will of course help but is not absolutely necessary. What will be helpful from your side is choppers, drop units or planes.

We hope to get infiltration on them in one of the next turns.

Anyway - the decision on the attack can be delayed - it only gets urgent once we get MMI where there will then come maybe three - four turns of cranking out millitary units followed by the attack.

It is probably about 20 turns out - meaning next summer if this pace keeps up.

For now if we can agree on you delaying on getting HEC and getting a proto of a 1-3-1, I will make the agreement with Cycon.
You should not tell them you have gotten the proto unless you have a pact (I forgot) in which case they will know it anyway so we might as well tell.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by HongHu

Currently we are not pacted with CC yet but it is the intention of Hive leaderships to pact with them. I will not tell CC about the prototype trade between us and will tell the other Hivers to do the same thing. I will also convey to the Hive about Drone's potential war plan against the uni and see what level of military cooperation could be formed.

Currently we are pacted with PEACE and PEACE pacted with uni. Let me know if I could get any info regarding uni that would be any help to you.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by HongHu

Originally posted by buster
meaning next summer if this pace keeps up.

You are right Buster. This brings up another thought of mine. Say after we get rid of the uni and PEACE, you fight over CC while the Hive sits and watches (according to the current public sentiment the Hive is hesitated in destroying CC), this would mean the game could continue for some time (I'm sure you would be the strongest faction at that point of time but still). While the team members of the two eliminated teams may not feel very good in sitting and watching others having fun. I feel it may be better for a demo game that everybody participates the majority of the game and the end is quick (even if painful for some). In other words, if the three of us pact together and quickly get rid of the other two and claim victory, it may be brutal (and too easy) but it does have an advantage of finishing the game faster instead of letting the other two teams to have a long torture after death.

Does this thought sound sensible to you at all? Do you think that a 3 way pact (even in the future) is in any way remotely possible?

[Snowflake]

Maniac at CC Embassy

We're glad you're back into service. :-) Has there been any word on the message Tassadar was so kind to forward?

My reply

Currently the Hive is in a state of after-coup chaos. The leadership has been either left, missing, busy or on trial. Tass had faithfully conveyed your message to the Hive. However, no discussion has been incurred yet. Currently I'm working on summarizing the situation in game for other Hivers, hoping this will bring people back into the game. I'm hoping that we will start some real game related discussions before the turn is in our hands. I will keep you informed of any new developments.

[Snowflake]

From buster

I believe Googlie stepped in this one earlier when it first came up. A three way shared victory in a five player game really is not much of a victory - particularly not if the alliance is formed at such a time as when two of the three teams are by far larger.

If it was three underdogs ganging up I would have no problem but the two of us ganging up with Cyborgs is really just an excercise in not destroying the Cyborgs. If you prefer we can leave them alive and do a diplo victory or such - I am not bound on destroying them. It will make the game go somewhat longer than it otherwise would though.

Suggest we take it up later - once the Uni thing has gone as planned. That one could still get a bit complicated if they start plastering their area with Aerospace complexes. They will probably only do that if they smell what is coming but we had a couple of suspicious sign-ups here recently meaning plans may be out in the open. (People who joined who only ever posted here or at Poly regarding joining - then came and looked and did not show up since or answer PMs). May be nothing but has a bad smell.

[Snowflake]

Kody

While I have been avoiding actually opening the game, I've still been watching the forums.

There was a very good reason why I approached Minute Mirage to get him to join the ACDG (he was supposed to join on the hive side). I saw that he had the basic personality and intelligence needed for making a very good player. That reasoning seems to be fairly well founded with my recent browsing of the strategy forums.

Expect at least an above average development rate for the university. Minute Mirage has been absorbing strategy about fast as I did, and from what I've seen there has always been very sound reasoning behind everything he's said in the strategy forums.

While I don't think he's gone insane with amount of time spent on the turns, although I expect that the university will be making very few mistakes when he plays.

Archiac, I believed had an ability that fell short of his reputation and I felt that beating the university would be an easy victory (after carefully looking at his turns and his postings). The way he approached things was a bit too rigid and he wouldn't be able to effectively adapt his strategy for the specific situation.

With Minute Mirage running the turns I believe that an easy victory will be less likely. I think that the university might end up getting MMI soon after us (maybe before us if the cycon assist the university). This may lead to a more difficult war.

I'm hoping that the university is neglecting diplomancy (due to internal beauracy). Unfortunately, without spending huge amounts of time checking and rechecking posting patterns, I'm in the dark about this.

I'm pretty sure that the university has written the hive off as a possible ally a long time ago. The relanding of the scout also suggests they are confident that they can fight the hive, or are already certain that the hive intends to fight a war without quarter against them and don't care if their actions hurry the process a little.

The question that has been bugging me is why were they so confident that they were willing to tweak the hive's nose by relanding their scout and breaking the terms of the treaty. Also why would they break a treaty so early that gives them trade income, but doesn't give the hive any. I've been thinking about it ever since I saw their scout and I can't figure out something that rings true.

One possibility is the insult rokossovky left in the turn tracking thread when he posted the turn previous. Although I thought the university was more mature than to let an insult effect their decisions.

One possibility is because they believed the current hive members would anull the current power of the hive. If the other teams hold the hive in low regard then we would have to deal with the cycon very carefully. If I was in the cycon's position and felt that the hive was inconsequential, an secret alliance with the university would be top of my agenda.

*sigh*

I think too much sometimes.