Poll: Accept Put Pact?

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think we should NOT accept the Pact THIS TURN, but rather NEXT TURN.

It now aparent that the Hive is building up in preperation to build a Secret Project and our relations with them are growing weaker. A Pact with Uni (whom they consider an enemy) would give them dipolomatic cover to conduct trades with PEACE and potentialy steal the PEG from us.

I think our best bet is too accelerate our build plan for the PEG (I belive we can move up to aquiring in 56) and stall the Hive as much as possible in its dealings with PEACE to aquire the nessary tec. The slower they are at doing this the better shot we have of getting the progject for ourselves.

Also note that we have NOT prepared the public statment we had planned, inwhich we would formaly declare our stance of peacfull nutrality and disire forPacting with the 3 remaining factions. By making this proclamation and sending offers to Drones and Uni we were hoping to conseal the depth of our secret aliance with Uni untill such time as we were taking the MMI projects. Pacting with Uni too early would compromise us and likly result in an acceleration of the Hives build plans possibly beating us.

If Archaic is willing the hold his Pact offer another turn then by all means delay it so as not to tip our hand.

I asumed Maniac and Drogue will have some response to this so please let them post their arguments before voting.

[Maniac]

I wished you had posted your objections earlier in the PUT exchanges thread. Then I could have asked Archaic about it, and he could have offered SotHB without a pact. Archaic seemed to be very looking forward to a pact, so it would probably seriously damage relations if we told him now, when he has already pre-accepted a pact, that we wanted to wait a little longer. I wouldn't want to jeopardize our pact and also us getting SotHB because of this.
I made a deal with Archaic, and no one objected when it still was possible, so IMHO it's now too late to change our mind.

Also note that we have NOT prepared the public statment we had planned, inwhich we would formaly declare our stance of peacfull nutrality and disire forPacting with the 3 remaining factions.

The plan to make such a public statement has been thought of MY 2150 IIRC. It still hasn't been done... So I assume such a statement will never get written. I wish I had the time to write it, but I don't have that time at the moment. And I don't want to delay the pact with PUT indefinitely because no one else is writing the statement either.

[Drogue]

It should be written and released with the turn tonight. I had to wait due to family reasons, but if it's posted tonight, then we can have it done fine

[DeathByTheSword]

i am still for a pact with the UNI...after reading everybodies statements...and i have nothing to add

[MrWhereItsAt]

I would be for waiting, but Maniac's comments worry me a little. We don't want to piss Archaic off. Is there no chance that he can be contacted soon about this? If we didn't get the PEG, we would have to settle for the CDF, or wait until we had access to the CF and/or the CBA. Personally I think ensuring the Hive don't get the PEG is a priority, and getting it ourselves is preferable.

[Drogue]

Personally I think the extra techs from trading the PEG is worth more, but I guess I'm alone in that. IMHO, all that would happen is we get the CBA instead of the PEG, and gain an extra couple of techs. That's a good deal IMHO.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
IMHO, all that would happen is we get the CBA instead of the PEG

Why not try to get both?

[Drogue]

We could try that, but IMHO we won't manage it, and the lack of crawlers from trying to do it may hit us.

Even if we could get both, I don't think all the mins to build it, plus two techs, is worth it. Especially when there are many decent SPs we could get (CBA, CDF, CF especially).

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
We could try that, but IMHO we won't manage it, and the lack of crawlers from trying to do it may hit us.

It will still take several years to get to MMI. More then enough time to build a few crawlers and save 330 credits again, especially if we switch to FM in a few years.

Even if we could get both, I don't think all the mins to build it, plus two techs, is worth it. Especially when there are many decent SPs we could get (CBA, CDF, CF especially).

First off, I guess you know my opinion the difference would be only one tech. Secondly, have you read the quoted post below in the Drone dip exchanges thread? We'll actually be saving lots of minerals by building the PEG.

If we capture all possible PEACE bases, we will have a faction with 20 bases. If we would have to build energy banks in all of those, it would cost 20*80=1600 minerals, and cost us 20 credits maintenance per year. So with building the PEG for 300 minerals, we're saving 1300 minerals and 20 credits per year. That's certainly worth one tech less IMO.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
It will still take several years to get to MMI. More then enough time to build a few crawlers and save 330 credits again, especially if we switch to FM in a few years.

But will it take the Drones/Hive several years? 3 or 4 maybe, IMHO.

Originally posted by Maniac
First off, I guess you know my opinion the difference would be only one tech.

But I think it's 3, so 2 would be the midpoint. IMHO, the Drones would trade if they knew they could sell it to the Hive. The Hive have already offered 2 techs. IMHO the Drones would not trade for it without the PEG, and the Hive would trade with PEACE. Hence we lose three.

Originally posted by Maniac
Secondly, have you read the quoted post below in the Drone dip exchanges thread? We'll actually be saving lots of minerals by building the PEG.

I have. That's presuming we build Energy Banks in each base. I almost never build them, as they're a waste of time, and bring in little energy, IMHO. Do a comparison with how much ec we get with PEG, and how much without, and compare that.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
But will it take the Drones/Hive several years? 3 or 4 maybe, IMHO.

The Hive and Drones still need to research SotHB, Neural and MMI. We and PUT only need DAP and MMI before we can build the CBA.

I have. That's presuming we build Energy Banks in each base. I almost never build them, as they're a waste of time, and bring in little energy, IMHO.

They give +50% credit production.

[Drogue]

Yes they do. But that isn't much, since we don't produce that much ec. +50% credits when most of our bases produce only 2 or 3 credits is hardly worth it, especially when they cost ec each year.

And the Drones will steal another tech next year, IMHO, and if they steal Neural, they can research MMI, can they not? I doubt it will take long

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
Yes they do. But that isn't much, since we don't produce that much ec. +50% credits when most of our bases produce only 2 or 3 credits is hardly worth it, especially when they cost ec each year.

When we go FM, we will produce much more credits. And if we set our energy allocation to 80% once in a while, the difference can run up to 100 credits extra. This difference will only increase as our economy expands.
Also, if we build the PEG, those energy banks won't cost a thing for maintenance.

And the Drones will steal another tech next year, IMHO,

Why do you think that? Has HongHu told you anything we should know??

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
When we go FM, we will produce much more credits. And if we set our energy allocation to 80% once in a while, the difference can run up to 100 credits extra. This difference will only increase as our economy expands.

Why would we do that? IMHO, at FM, more psych is needed, and usually labs is put higher. But that may just be me.

Originally posted by Maniac
Also, if we build the PEG, those energy banks won't cost a thing for maintenance.

That is true.

Originally posted by Maniac
Why do you think that? Has HongHu told you anything we should know??

No, it just seems sensible. They wouldn't go for vendetta unless they had something lined up. They said before they intend to probe rape. My guess is that they'll do about one per turn, maybe one every two turns.

[DeathByTheSword]

do they already have an vendetta?