HIVE diplomatic exchanges

[Impaler[WrG]]

Its not likly that we will get SotHB any time soon, unless PEACE sudenly aquires it from an AI or the University. Laster on it might be possible to steal it from one of the AI's with Our Probe Foil but I would estimate around 6-8 turns in the future for that to happen if we send the Probe off to do it as its first task. Depending on the Hostility level between Uni/Hive it may be better to use it against the University instead to infiltrate them.

As I have said before, we need to keep a tec edge over the Hive even if they our are alies. I think a Pact witht he Drones could help use generate more trade so lets look into that. I dont support giving them the PEG for anything less then Env Econ and Eco Eng. We earned that tecnology (well we took the time to steal it) fair and square and we need more Secret Projects, the Hive already has 4. It will also alow us to bumb up our research rate as we could switch to 60/40 Econ/reserach and still bring in all the Credits we need. Simply giving away our tec edge to a Builder faction so that it may build all the SP is utterly ILOGICAL.


That said I do feel getting Eco-Eng is a high priority in the near future so that we may construct Bore Holes, the Hive could jump ahead of us Tec wise if they start collecting way more energy then us.

We should also try to access the UNI's probe defences to see how sucessfull the Hive will be in its attempt to Probe rape them. I suspect UNI has strong defences and will be dificult to probe but the Hive's infiltration may nulify this. If the Hive starts having a field day on UNI then we shoud get into the act too so as to aquire as much as we can and remain competitive. Uni has many of the tecs which the Hive is offering to us.

[MrWhereItsAt]

The Hive is not the only way we can get techs, and neither will they hold a monopoly on Eco Eng and EnvEco forever. We should be able to get Eco Eng and EnvEco for ourselves in the future, through some other trade or through someone else. Let's keep the PEG until we get it. Why even CONSIDER throwing away one of the good SPs, and one of the few we have a chance at, for a few extra turns with a couple of techs we will get anyway?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Message to HongHu

Message sent to HongHu

Gretings Honored Hivarian Diplomate

I have a few inquires and messages for your consideration.

Conserning your resent tec offers, a SoHB for Loc Loyalty trade sounds promising but unfortunatly we do not predict we will have SoHB in the near future. We might be able to aquire it in 6-8 turns which would also be a good time for us to aquire Doc Loyalty. When do you belive you will require SoHB? Is it needed urgently to continue your BeeLine to Nural Grafting?

The other trades conserning Adapt Econ and the PEG are still being discussed so I will not comment on them. In any event they could not occur untill we actualy have the Tec in question so their is amble time to negotiate.

We would also like to inquire about the Planetary council voteing. We are prepared to vote for you if you so wish it but if you are able to get the Drones to vote in your favor then you will be guaranteed victory even if we and all other human Factions were to vote for Drones or Abstain. Thus it might be wise for us to Abstain so as not to arrouse as much suspicion on Uni's part that their may be an aliance against them. With the war on PEACE, us voting for you and Pacting all in the same turn would virtualy guarantee Uni would react with a defencive build up and would become hostile towards both of us. As you have stated your Vedetta upon them would be most retorical rather then substantive at this point we wish to avoid any possible Uni interference in our war.

If on the other hand you and the Drones are going to compete for the Govenorship then we would be forced to vote for you, still this might not be enough votes if the Uni and PEACE both support the Drones simply to spite the Hive (likly I think). As you called the council the moment the Drones exceeded the Angels pop I assume you either dont realy care who wins or you have an agreement with them. In either case Abstaining is a viable option if the Hive dose not need our votes.

You also seem to indicate that you will be Probing the University soon. This is indeed much wiser then a frontal war at this point as you lack good military tec. Your govenorship Infiltration will undoutibly prove usefull in the Probing too. We might also try the same thing depending on if Hostilites break out or not. Would you be agreeable to comunicating to use locations of Probe volnerability when they are needed or trying to conduct joint probe attacks? We suspect they will be well defended and will likly try to aquire the HSA as soon as possible.

[Maniac]

HongHu's response on my question if we were to get infiltration data on all factions just like the Drones would:

As for infiltration data, I thought we already has a deal that Jamksi made with Drogue some time ago. That CC would vote for us and Hive would provide PEACE and Uni infiltration data to CC. We have said that we will honor this deal.

Damn Hiveans. We already told them a long time ago we were no longer willing to vote for them in exchange for only that infiltration information. Temporary deafness I guess...

[Impaler[WrG]]

We should begin moving foward with negotians for Ecolocial Enginering. I think we could exchange prototyping of a Cruiser and Impact weapons for Ecological Eng and Doc Loyalty. I fugure the Hive is a bit in depted to us for Voting for them now so they are likly to accept something like this. I think by the time we can spare an Impact Cruiser to travel to Hive territory we should bee feeling the need for thouse BoreHoles quite strongly. Idealy we could get the Eco Eng now or soon and pay them later.

[Maniac]

Hmm, as Doc:Ini and NonlMath are at the moment the top military technologies, I personally don't feel they are worth that much less than the top builder technologies at the moment: EcoEng & EnvEcon. Also don't forget that if we give prototypes instead of the techs themselves, they get the extra benefit of having smaller tech costs than they normally should have.
I would be in favour of a straight deal: EcoEng & DocLoy <-> Doc:Ini & NonlMath, but if they want prototypes instead, I would ask extra compensation.

Another possibility is of course that I send a "confidential" PM to Archaic, saying that there are currently negotiations with the Hive regarding EcoEng&DocLoy<->Doc:Ini&NonlMath, but that I personally don't trust the Hive with these top military technologies, and ask if Archaic wouldn't be willing to offer the CyCon a better deal, to convince those wanting to trade with the Hive. As Archaic knows the Hive isn't exactly pro-PUT, he might agree to prevent his rival fom getting military techs.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Certanly try to get the best deal we can get and avoid giving the Hive much in the way of military tecnology.

Archaic tends to drive a hard bargan as we know and I think we shoulc focus on getting Env Econ from him. If we were to do this though the Hive would likly desire the tecnology from us as they are currently reserching it. This could greatly complicate our Hive relationships if we honor the Non Proliferation agreements that Archaic is shure to insist upon.

[Maniac]

Wouldn't they understand it if we simply said we had a non-proliferation agreement? If we didn't keep it, we would look untrustworthy both in PUT's and Hivean eyes.

Anyway, should I send some sort of reminder to Archaic and GT? It's been a few days since I sent the message.

[laurentius]

Enigma_nova contacted me about the following;

HIVE is interested in Adaprive Economics
As a Prereq for Planetary Econ, for Ascetic Virtues +1 Police
Has some infrastructure techs to trade. Might trade Env Econ or Eco Eng
Needs tech after 2154 (due to a beeline) but before about 2160

And they're asking the PEACE the same deal.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by laurentius
And they're asking the PEACE the same deal.

That's kind of a pointless threat isn't it? If they give PEACE instead of us EcoEng or EnvEcon in exchange for AdapEcon, we'll just obtain it from PEACE by capturing a base. So the only thing they'd achieve is pissing us off severely.

Anyway, Impaler, do you think it would be possible to build the PEG before MY 2160?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Depends, It will take the equivilent of 10 Crawlers to get the PEG. I think that in the coming years our Core Bases should be able to produce about that many crawlers but we will have to put off other usefull improvments to do you. Most of the Pirate territory will likly not be of much help as its roing to be full of Drones and will be needing Rec Commons before it can even think about doing anything else.

Also I have heard you mention some kind of Upgrading Trick with Trance Crawlers that I am unfamiliar with. Please expalin adsactly how this works. If Uni can give us SoTHB for such a manuver to happen I will recalculate how it may speed up the Process.

Also we may wish to re-evaluate the situation if it looks like we will have a good shoot at getting MMI before the Hive/Drones do. It would be preferable to get the CBA over the PEG. CBF is more expensive so it would be harder to achive before another faction rets the tec. If we do some kind of deal with Uni in which we tec trade and then agree to split the Projects resulting from MMI that would be an excelent way to deny them to the Builder factions (who could likly cream us if they get both). I would propose we let Uni build the CBA and we take the CBF, they will need the AiroSpace Complex's defenceive bonus vs the Drone Air Force and we should get CBF for Role Playing purposes (and purely military reason too ofcorse).

[Drogue]

I have put a personal reply on the VoyForum (sorry, didn't see this thread) that I would personally be for it if we promised not to build the Ascetic Virtues and they promised not to build the PEG. If we do that, it's all good IMHO.

Imp: the upgrade trick is that you cna upgrade crawlers cheaply, and so they can cash in for more minerals. For about 300ec, you can create a 150 min crawler, and so it counts as 5 normal crawlers, for building the SP.

I'd agree with the SP thing with PUT, but for the fact that the Drones wil, take one. They will get it soon after us, have crawlers and have faster build. Let us try to take the CBA or CF, and get coptors for PUT. They will want Coptors, and can try to build faster than us, but will fail. If we can get PEG and CBA, then we rock, but CBA is more important IMHO. The only way we can win is by war IMHO, since Hive are unprepared, and we will have a tech edge on them. With MCC and CBA we would have a big advantage, especially if it came to orbital facilities.

[Drogue]

Just chatted with HongHu. Simply asked if Enigma's deal is ok, with the non build of the others SP. She said she'll have to ask, as I did I. She proposed a Eco Eng and Env Econ for Adapt Econ, a sweetener (ec? cruiser?) and letting them build the PEG and AV. Ok it's 2 SPs, but we can go for CBA, and we get both builder techs we want. Other option (possibly better?) is that PUT need defenses, so we trade either HEC (if we fel we can) or a plasma unit for Env Econ, and get Eco Eng for Adapt Econ from the Hive. That way we keep both sweet.

IMHO, I think buster is going to try to beat Hive on his own. If he does, we need to ally strongly with the Hive. They are our ally, not the Drones, and without Kody (the Drones supporter) we may be able to turn them our way. They're stronger than PUT (don't ever tell Hive we like PUT, so we can drop PUT if we need to go for Co-op with Hive) and together we can beat Drones and PUT, who won't ally However that's a big if, so let's keep PUT happy and go for alliance there just in case. We may beable to play kingmaker after all

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
She proposed a Eco Eng and Env Econ for Adapt Econ, a sweetener (ec? cruiser?) and letting them build the PEG and AV. Ok it's 2 SPs, but we can go for CBA, and we get both builder techs we want.

If we won't have the resources to build two SPs but have the ability to build the CBA, I agree we should go for the CBA and trade AdapEcon to the Hive for EcoEng and EnvEcon.

IMHO, I think buster is going to try to beat Hive on his own.

Do you mean economically or military? Military seems rather unlikely to me to say the least as they have just given plasma armour to the Hive.
Anyway, I agree we should try to keep our options open re PUT and Hive and try to be kingmaker (though now we have become more powerful than PUT, we would be the king in a PUT-CC alliance ).

[Impaler[WrG]]

I would not be in favor of promising the Hive the PEG in exchange for CBA. Unless the Drones trade us SFF (looking douptfull) then we will not even be getting MMI anyware soon enough to beat Hive or Drones to either secret Project. They will simply scoop them all up, or conveniently let the Drones build anything they have agreed not to build. The level of coperation between these 2 factions is simply sick, I would consider them to practicaly be 1 team at this point and I think the chanc of one or both of them trying to concour us is VERY high. We must assume the worse.

Also I think we should get Env Econ from the University, they expressed intereest in helping us and we have several tecs they want. Atleast lets see who has a better deal, their is far too much faith in the Hive around here is you ask me. We dont need to do them any favors. Lets go with Eco Eng for Adap Econ with nonprolifertion and no Secret Project build on their part. And lets see what Uni offers.