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  • #16
    Maniac: The first bit is a spelling mistake. The start of paragraph 5 needs to be changed, as I changed what it related to

    The "it" in "While it seems to state" regards to the OED definition earlier, and the proof of emotion opposed to reason is also that OED quote, given in paragraph 2, that: "[emotion is] an instinctive feeling as opposed to reason". I will change the wording to see if I can get it to make more sense.

    I love the idea about the splinter group. Indeed, Cedayon should be joining us soon, although mostly idling and making the occasional point, and he has said he wishes to forgo the Cybernetic implants. This he could also join the splinter group.

    As for the actual article, I like it, but a few things I am unsure about. Is this group illogical? If so, why are they in the CyCon? also, your statement
    To the notion put forward by our Prime Function in his "Meditations on Logic" that, if logical emotions would exist, there would be no difference in outcome between using emotion or logic as guide, thus making emotions pointless no matter what, a captured and interrogated Unimatrix 001 member replied: "If the outcome is the same, why suppress emotions? If the old system of emotions works well, why replace it with a system giving the same results? That's simply inefficient!"
    seemed to miss the point. I said that if there were logical emotions, they would give the same answer, but argued in the next paragraph that logical emotions could not exist, as logic and reason are so closely linked, and reason is opposed to emotion (both from OED definitions).

    Personally, I would have bought it more if it was an experiment (we like doing those for research, maybe secret) into whether emotions could make things more efficient, like the "knee-jerk" reaction of emotions, that involved having those cyborgs with their left brain algorithms put back into the Consciousness. thus you would still be connected, but able to experience some emotions (maybe keeping it to ones that can be argued logically).

    I think the story is good, but I would change a couple of things, such as to make it an experiment that went to far, rather than a group that got together and did it themselves, because that would require individuality before they got slightly seperated, and would also require illogical emotions to break free. Plus, the experiment puts less of a negatve against our faction. Your story is almost saying that we cannot handle our own, even with out superior intelligence. As it is, it does not seem like the CyCon to me. RP is great, but surely muist be based on our faction, and what Aki Zeta-5 said is one o the very few things the game has already decided for our faction. To go against that leaves us with a faction that can't quite call itselve the Cybernetic Consciousness, as we don't conform to the CyCon rules. I will publish it as it if you really wish, but I would like a few opinions from others too. If many people see us as emotional at times, even against our ethos, I will go with it, but I have to say when reading it, I don't find it that believable.

    I mean no offence at all by any of this, I am not arguing against you so much, as the idea of emotions. I see us all as individual to some extent, as I feel that can be more efficient. Like FM, it could be like us all working independently for the common good. Especially since we are all different people, as we are showing, but I think to be CyCon, logic and rationality are the overriding features. Thus I feel uncomfortable with having emotions.

    What do others think?


    Also, on a seperate matter, I saw Herc's little discussion about God (Googlie) and his little Lord's Prayer adapted line, and have written this prayer (logical since a prayer to a God we know exists ) which I would like to put into 3D:

    Our CMN, who art in all forums,
    hallowed by thy name.
    Should our Faction win,
    thy will be done,
    on Chiron as it failed on Earth.
    Give us this day, our daily data.
    And forgive us our experiments,
    as we forgive those who experiment upon us.
    And lead us not into the fungus,
    but deliver us from the Hive.
    For thine is the map, the power and and the glory.
    For ever and ever.
    Amen.

    Prime Function's "Prayer to Googlie"
    Last edited by Drogue; May 16, 2003, 16:37.
    Smile
    For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
    But he would think of something

    "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

    Comment


    • #17
      Here is the article I promised about the new Cabinet. Just a short piece:

      Newsflash!
      This, hot of the databanks, straight from Apolyton Prime:

      The Government of The Cybernetic Consciousness has been decided just minutes ago. I am now able to report that joining Prime Function Drogue Beta-8 and Second Function Mani Alpha-3 are:
      Function TK Gamma-8 – Adviser for Internal Affairs,
      Function Corelli Omega-9 – Adviser for Foreign Affairs,
      Function Delta – Adviser to the Military and
      Function Book Upsilon Mu – Adviser for Science.

      This new Cabinet heralds a new era for The Cybernetic Consciousness, embarking on their great and logical path to world domination peace and prosperity for all!

      All at 3D wish them strength and logic.


      Is it ok?
      Smile
      For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
      But he would think of something

      "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

      Comment


      • #18
        great! i've designed some logos for the 3D, and i'll post them as soon as i can figure out how to get my FTP working again...

        Comment


        • #19
          hm, that was fast:







          choose from these, suggest improvements (different colours maybe?) or MAK YOUR OWN F***ING LOGO!!!

          Comment


          • #20
            I like it

            Personally, I think the main one should have a binary background, and I'd probably go for the last one. The first looks a little bitty, although might work smaller, but either that or the last IMHO. I think #2 & #3 would work for smaller ones, at the end.

            If it's ok I'll have a play with it, and then post a preliminary one on here. Any articles people writing? TKG? DBTS? Anyone? Another would be nice
            Smile
            For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
            But he would think of something

            "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

            Comment


            • #21
              Err... I like them all.
              Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
              Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

              Comment


              • #22
                Drogue, I'll see if I can rewrite the article as an experiment as you suggest, started after the discussions we had about emotions. I don't know for sure if I'll be able to do it before tomorrow when you publish the first 3 though.
                I'll respond to your arguments in the Philosophy thread, so we can keep things in one thread.
                Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Prime Function's "Prayer to Googlie"
                  GooglieGod saw, and was pleased

                  GG
                  Last edited by Googlie; May 16, 2003, 17:03.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Maniac: Great idea, this should be just for 3D stuff. If it looks like I have enough stuff, I will publish it tomorrow, and will do an 'extra' edition when you have finished that.
                    Smile
                    For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                    But he would think of something

                    "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Drogue
                      Any articles people writing? TKG? DBTS? Anyone? Another would be nice
                      well i'd write something, but i can't think of anything to write about. plus, i'll be away all day tomorrow, and since i'll have to get up at 5.00 tomorrow morning, i have to *begin regeneration sequence* at about 20.00 tonight

                      IOW, i might write something if i can do it withing a few hours...and if you give me a topic

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Philosophy article has been updated so that it makes sense is easier to read
                        Smile
                        For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                        But he would think of something

                        "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I won't be able anymore to write my article before tomorrow.

                          Meanwhile, could I please ask you again to make some changes to your articles? I find it rather odd actually that we, members of the Consciousness, are discussing in those articles whether we have emotions. I mean, either our algorythm is programmed to allow, or not to allow them. Instead, shouldn't we be discussing whether we should have emotions? That would require a few changes to the articles. For the first it's simple: only a few words need to be added:

                          The debate began in earnest, when the issue of emotions was bought up with Prime Function Drogue Beta-8 declaring that the Cyborgs should not experience emotions, as emotions were all illogical. To that Second Function Mani Alpha-3 retorted that the Cyborgs should experience emotion, and that in fact emotions are logical most of the time, so they should no longer be suppressed by our algorythms. The debate is still continuing, as the interested reader can see in our Prime Function’s column. Aki Zeta-5 had this to say about the issue:
                          Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                          Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            That is true and a good idea. I will do that for the one to be released. Do not worry about writing yours then. I have written a bit at the end of my philosophy one leading into it, but for a later date. I will publish it as a extra whenever it's done. Take your time

                            However, about the emotions. My thoughts were about whether or not we do, rather than should have them. If we change it to that, I agree a lot more. I think we don't, as Aki Zeta says, which is what we are IMHO. What we should be is open to much more interpretation. However, whether it would be beneficial or not (i would still argue not, although not so strongly( but I passionately believe that we are not, at the moment. I don't think we have the technology for that until we get at least Self-Aware Mechanics and more likely Digital Sentience.

                            Edit: Have updated. Thanks for that Maniac
                            Last edited by Drogue; May 16, 2003, 18:31.
                            Smile
                            For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                            But he would think of something

                            "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Oh yes, I see you still haven't deleted the fifth paragraph in your first article, which is the earlier version of the sixth paragraph. Don't forget to delete it before going to press.
                              Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                              Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Talking of stuff for the new issue, I have some more artwork thsat could work. Here are a couple of examples, tell me which you like. Also I'm looking for a new Avatar (since my STEP one is out of date) and would like to use one of these for that:


                                The standard Aki Zeta-5 pic, if a rather nice example


                                The rather heavy-handed Cyborg bouncer, to stop intruders entering our private meeting place




                                A few examples of Cyborg Scout Patrols.


                                A picture about consciousness. Possible Avatar for me?




                                Some drawings of Cyborgs, a bit more arty. Possible Avatars?


                                The obligatory female pic She is, apparently, a Cyborg

                                Ok, so which ones should I use for 3D, and which should become my new Avatar?
                                Smile
                                For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                                But he would think of something

                                "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                                Comment

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