Ideas for the Start

[Method]

the only time i'll start a war with someone early on is if they have no military and i pop a pod with a battler ogre. science should be focused on building early on, building!

[Maniac]

I like to have a base producing either an SP

Indeed. Another reason why we need our bases to grow beyond size 1. We need a base early on for SPs, with decent population and thus decent minerals. Which reminds me, before going to IndAut, it might also be a good idea to research Social Psych, to build a rec commons early on in our future SP base.

I'm almost leaving btw, going to regenerate.

EDIT By TKG: hey cool, a bug!

one more problem to report to markos

[Drogue]

TKG: We have techsteal. One laser rover and we can wipe out a single scout patrol without any difficulty, get aanother tec, maybe another base and maybe wipe our a faction near us, giving us more room to develop. Also we can use it to explore. Could be very useful.

Edit: I disagree, I think we shouldn't do this

[Googlie]

You're on "look first" and start with 3 colony pods and 3 scout patrol units.

If any of you have been in PBEM's I've set up you'll know that your start position is always good for a Headquarters base (and I'm giving nothing away, as I'll advise the other teams similarly if the discussion comes up - and several of them are veterans of my CMN'd games)

G.

[Drogue]

Considering Googlie's post, I vote that we build a base wherever we start. If it's a good location, we might as well start building stuff ASAP.

What do others think?

[Maniac]

If any of you have been in PBEM's I've set up you'll know that your start position is always good for a Headquarters base

Really? I never noticed. I think that both in FW1 as FW5 I build my capital on another square than I started.

What do others think?

Sure.

[Drogue]

So to surmise, we go for Centauri Ecology first, build the base where it starts, unless it can see something really good very close to it, and build a former ASAP?

However, what to build first. If we start with 3 scout patrols, I suggest not building another one. Should we start with a CP, and then hope that we grow soon, start with CP and switch to former ASAP, start as stockpile energy and switch to former ASAP, or build a fourth scout patrol?

[Maniac]

It all depends on our surrounding terrain.
If we have a nutrient bonus nearby so the base will grow to size 2 before we reach 30 minerals, we could build a colony pod first. If not, just build an extra scout patrol IMHO.

[Drogue]

Really? Personally, I think go stockpile energy until we get cent. eco., and then formers. It means we get more money and formers quicker, and we don't need another SP really. I thik the tech and former would be far more beneficial personally.

[Maniac]

Go stockpile immediately on the first turn, until we research Centauri Ecology? Assuming we have 2 minerals per year in the beginning, that would be wasting 2 mins per year in exchange for a mere 1 energy credit. How is that beneficial? Now I've thought a bit more about it, this is my newest suggestion:
1) Build our HQ, and put the queue to a scout patrol (which will cost us no support, so no waste here)
2) The next turn that scout patrol will be completed due to the ten free minerals. Switch to CP.
3) Wait for CentEco
4) If the CP production is already in a far stadium when we research CentEco, finish the CP before switching to a former. If the CP isn't yet far in production, switch to a former immediately.

Using this method I think we'll waste the least possible minerals.

Should we poll it after others have made suggestions? I sense we two won't come to an agreement.

[Drogue]

I think we will, I quite like that idea, though I am unsure of a few things. Why put it in queue? Don't we jsut chose to build it first?

I was thinking that it means we are ready to build former ASAP, whereas if we're building a CP we would have to wait ages to get formers. I was simply suggesting the way to get the former the quickest.

I agree with that method, although is the SP needed? Should we just for a CP first, and use the first 10 mins for that?

[Maniac]

Why put it in queue? Don't we jsut chose to build it first?

Err, yes, that's what I mean. Just another way of saying it. (If you put something in the queue while the current build order is "stockpile energy", the build order changes automatically to what you put in the queue btw.)

I was thinking that it means we are ready to build former ASAP, whereas if we're building a CP we would have to wait ages to get formers. I was simply suggesting the way to get the former the quickest.

If I understand your method correctly, we will still have our ten free minerals in the queue when we research CentEco, and one credit per year it took to research CentEco, assuming we have two mins that are converted to one credit. If you count one mineral as having the same value as two energy (I always do so as it costs two energy to rush one mineral when hurrying facilities), that's a loss of 75%.

Using my method, we will have an extra scout patrol, and will gain two mins per year. It would surprise me if we were able to research CentEco in five years, so probably we'll have more ten mins in the queue when we research CentEco. If we then switch to a former, we'll lose half of the mins we have accumulated above the first ten. That's a loss of 50% for mins above the first ten, and a loss of 0% for the first ten mins.

I agree with that method, although is the SP needed? Should we just for a CP first, and use the first 10 mins for that?

I'm afraid I don't understand you. What SP / Secret Project??

[Drogue]

Sorry I mean't SP as in scout patrol. As for the others, I consider mins and energy worth the same, as it is 2 min-1 energy for stockpiling, but 1 min-2 energy for rushing. I agree though, forget the stockpile energy. However, shoudl we build another scout patrol, and then go for CP, or go stright for CP, with the extra mins on that. The first means we'll likely change to building a former partway through the CP, the latter means we'll probably build the CP first.

Scout patrol, or no scout patrol, that is the question

[Maniac]

As for the others, I consider mins and energy worth the same, as it is 2 min-1 energy for stockpiling, but 1 min-2 energy for rushing.

Well personally I use the "stockpile energy" command much less than the "hurry" command. Also, as I usually play FM most of the time, I produce much more energy than minerals, again decreasing the value of energy, and increasing that of minerals.

However, shoudl we build another scout patrol, and then go for CP, or go stright for CP, with the extra mins on that. The first means we'll likely change to building a former partway through the CP, the latter means we'll probably build the CP first.

Currently I can't have an opinion about that yet. I first need to know the starting location. If there's a nutrient surplus in the base radius, the base will probably grow to size 2 before the CP is done, and we can forget the scout patrol (though then we would need to garrison one of our independent scout patrols in the base to prevent drone riots). If there isn't a nutrient surplus, it's unlikely the base will grow before the CP is finished, and we'll have to build something else first before starting on a CP. Otherwise our HQ will be disbanded!

[Method]

seeing as we won't have formers off the start, i suppose i vote to build a scout first.