Official: Xanadu Boreholes

[Method]

Originally posted by Drogue
It is unconstitutional being there, and I think it is highly unfair to force it upon Akiria. Moreover, I intend to challange it's legitimacy in the courts, if needs be, as it was unconsitutional there.

it won't be unconstitutional if this poll passes. but fine: go ahead and destroy it. if it passes in this poll, then i have every right to build a new one, and you have no case against me in court. if it fails, i won't complain if you want the planet buster the crap out of it

[Cedayon]

/me wonders just what would happen if one were to detonate a singularity planet buster at the bottom of a borehole *

Hmmmmmm...

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by TKG
nuh-uh! if it passes on this poll, it ceases to be unconstitutional.

It does? How exactly?

Edit - Hm. I suppose I see your point here. Albeit as far as I know, constitutional disputes are meant to be solved by the court, not in polls. Nor is it up for the people to decide that closely on terraforming, at least on a casual basis. And we didn't poll the savegame mess a few weeks ago either did we?

[GeneralTacticus]

The Constitution doesn't say that one should poll what save to use (it doesn't mention it all, which is why we had the problem in the first place), but ti does say to poll boreholes, which is why we're having a problem here. If it's approved in the poll, it ceases to be unconstitutional.

[Drogue]

How so? It was unconstitutional when built, and thus needs to be destroyed. That is for the Judges to decide. Whether to rebuild it is for the Governor to decide. Moreover. why is this poll valid, since IIRC DIA's may not order terraforming, that is for Governors. Neither the Akirian nor the Aurillion Governor has said they wish this borehole yet.

[GeneralTacticus]

How so? It was unconstitutional when built, and thus needs to be destroyed.

But if it's approved in a poll, then it becomes constitutional, even if it is ex post facto. The only real alternative would be to first ear down the borehole and then drill a new one, which would be a pointless waste of time.

Moreover. why is this poll valid, since IIRC DIA's may not order terraforming, that is for Governors.

I don't recall anything in the constitution that says who may poll about what.

Neither the Akirian nor the Aurillion Governor has said they wish this borehole yet.

You do realize who the acting Govenror of Aurillion is, don't you?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
But if it's approved in a poll, then it becomes constitutional, even if it is ex post facto. The only real alternative would be to first ear down the borehole and then drill a new one, which would be a pointless waste of time.

Yes, but we it is unconstitutional. Yes it would be a waste of time, but that is the only constitutional outcome. That borehole should not be there, and so much be destroyed. If the Governor of Aurillion wishes to poll for a new one, then ok. Moreover, this poll is not to ratify it, it is to build a new one.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I don't recall anything in the constitution that says who may poll about what.

Well, it does say that:

Governors:
Have the rights and duties of:
*Ordering the commissioner to:
**move formers for his region

and nowehere does it say that the DIA may post orders for a Governor. The idea is that the Governor orders things, and the DIA ratifies them.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
You do realize who the acting Govenror of Aurillion is, don't you?

Yes. I also realise that you have failed for the last 2 or 3 days to post the election for the new Governor of Aurillion. If you wish to poll, then please do, but by the time of the next turnchat, Herc should be elected. Please post the election ASAP. I would hate to think that you have held this up purposfully to get this borehole through. Especially since the game should have been frozen until a new Governor is chosen, since you have taken over two positions. If I have to, I will ask for it to be frozen.

[GeneralTacticus]

Um... as I posted in the governemnt thread, I haven't seen any post by Herc volunteering to be Govenror of Aurillion. Where did he state this?

[GeneralTacticus]

Yes, but we it is unconstitutional. Yes it would be a waste of time, but that is the only constitutional outcome. That borehole should not be there, and so much be destroyed. If the Governor of Aurillion wishes to poll for a new one, then ok. Moreover, this poll is not to ratify it, it is to build a new one.

The outcome is precisely the same, which is, IMO, what should matter.

and nowehere does it say that the DIA may post orders for a Governor. The idea is that the Governor orders things, and the DIA ratifies them.

TKG isn't posting orders, he's posting polls.

[Drogue]

In this very thread, page 1:

Note I volunteered for spare Gov position. Aurillion will do nicely, thank you.

And in the Nomination thread he posted that he'd go for any spare position/Governorship.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
The outcome is precisely the same, which is, IMO, what should matter.

But it isn't what matter. We must go by what the constitution says, and that says that that borehole is unconstitutional, and must be removed. I ordered it a while ago, and it has not been done. If you wish to rebuild it, that is a different issue.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
TKG isn't posting orders, he's posting polls.

Yes. But he may not post the orders. And if you have posted Herc's election, he would have been Governor by the time of the next turnchat, and so could decide not to build another one. Hence, if this poll goes through, I will ask for the game to freeze until the election has been finished, so that you do not have to have 2 positions at turnchat. Thus, before we have a turnchat, Herc will be Governor.

That borehole will be destroyed, and I intend to make sure that it is not rebuilt. If you want to rebuild it in a different place, then ok, but not in Cyclops base radius. All you need to do is move it.

[Kassiopeia]

If the borehole for the green area wins in this poll, it becomes constitutional, at least that is what it says in the constitution (source: GT in this thread ).

That's a simple fact. Even if the borehole *was* unconstitutional before, it would be impractical and downright ridiculous to destroy it and then build a new one just to fill the letter of the constitution. And this poll is a way for the DIA to seek ratification for the borehole. I see nothing wrong with this poll, as the right to decide is of the people in the end.

Edit - as you can see from the timestamps, this post does not cover the post by Drogue above - and I won't cover it until later, since I'm now going to watch some Evangelion.

Btw, could someone tell me how on earth chiron we ended up in this mess in the first place? Who exactly ordered the construction of an unconstitutional borehole?

[GeneralTacticus]

And in the Nomination thread he posted that he'd go for any spare position/Governorship.

I missed the one in this thread, and I saw no confirmation from him in the nominations thread as to what he was going to run for.
Election has been posted.

Now, could someone tell me how on earth chiron we ended up in this mess in the first place? Who exactly ordered the construction of an unconstitutional borehole?

I beleive TKG gave orders that the borehole be constructed, which were later retracted due to it's losing the poll, but it was built anyway due to a mistake on my part (I don't actually recall building it, but it's not like I have a good enough memory to recall every one of the thousands of former actions I do each chat).

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
If the borehole for the green area wins in this poll, it becomes constitutional, at least that is what it says in the constitution (source: GT in this thread ).

No it doesn't. This poll is not to ratify an old borehole, it is to build a new one. Moreover, as in any RL legal case, it is whether it was constitutional at the time it happen that is the matter. There were different people then, it might not have won the poll. Even more, I asked for it's destruction and was overruled before this poll was even started. The fact I was overruled was unconstitutional, and should not have happened. I suggest your source becoems the constitution rather than the Alpha Talent

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
That's a simple fact. Even if the borehole *was* unconstitutional before, it would be impractical and downright ridiculous to destroy it and then build a new one just to fill the letter of the constitution. And this poll is a way for the DIA to seek ratification for the borehole. I see nothing wrong with this poll, as the right to decide is of the people in the end.

But we are the Peacekeepers, as it says, we rule by constitutiona, even though it is burocratic. Yes it would be impractical, but if that is what the constitution states, then that is what must happen.

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Btw, could someone tell me how on earth chiron we ended up in this mess in the first place? Who exactly ordered the construction of an unconstitutional borehole?

Well, TKG claims not, thus it must have been either DBTS (IIRC he wa sthe previous Governor of Aurillion) or GT, as Commissioner, with TKG being DIA and thus letting it slide. If it was GT, that is another unconstitutionality, since not only was it not polled (orm was it defeated?) it was not ordered either.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I missed the one in this thread, and I saw no confirmation from him in the nominations thread as to what he was going to run for.
Election has been posted.

Thank you. For those that wish to vote, the election is here.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I beleive TKG gave orders that the borehole be constructed, which were later retracted due to it's losing the poll, but it was built anyway due to a mistake on my part (I don't actually recall building it, but it's not like I have a good enough memory to recall every one of the thousands of former actions I do each chat).

Thank you for the clarification. Why was it not removed the first time it was brought up though? I remember saying about it (although not ordering destruction, as I was not Akirian Governor at the time) quite some time ago.