Unofficial: Military specialist base?

[GeneralTacticus]

Is this a "fair poll" ? There are two options for "no". Is this an attempt to split the "No"vote? Ha ! Suffer for choosing FM !

There aren't two votes for no. There's actually two votes for 'yes': just plain 'Yes', and 'yes, with some things revised'.

[Pandemoniak]

Definetly not. You wanted to go for a decayed economy of free market, now, assume, and dont transform some of our bases into militaristic colonies.

AND DONT EVEN MENTION PUNISHMENT SPHERE

[GeneralTacticus]

So, because you can't find any other downsides to FM than this one, and you need to find one if you want to get rid of it, you won't let us solve it? We might as well ahve argued agaisnt building Children's Creches to make the inefficiency problems under Planned worse.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
So, because you can't find any other downsides to FM than this one, and you need to find one if you want to get rid of it, you won't let us solve it? We might as well ahve argued agaisnt building Children's Creches to make the inefficiency problems under Planned worse.

Except that people want children's creches, but they dont want thousands of armed soldiers roaming in their bases. And if not with PS, how do you intend to prevent this powerful army to cause unrest ? Now, everyone can see that you wished only FM not for the wealth that it brings to the people -- a very contestable wealth, actally, but for the wealth it brings to the government, in order to build up a strong military.

[GeneralTacticus]

Except that people want children's creches, but they dont want thousands of armed soldiers roaming in their bases.

Nobody's suggested that we have thousands of troops roaming our bases.

And if not with PS, how do you intend to prevent this powerful army to cause unrest ?

By the method outliend in my first post, which has zero connection to a police state.

Now, everyone can see that you wished only FM not for the wealth that it brings to the people -- a very contestable wealth, actally,

'Contestable'? Denying that our faction is wealthier under FM than under other systems is like denying that one is warmer in the sun than in the shade.

but for the wealth it brings to the government, in order to build up a strong military.

What, exactly, does the money that comes in from FM have to do with the military? If anything, FM is detrimental to the military, as it restricts it's freedom of movement by subjecting ti to popular opinion.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Nobody's suggested that we have thousands of troops roaming our bases.

No, only in a couple of bases.

By the method outliend in my first post, which has zero connection to a police state.

It was PS for punishment sphere. And you suggest specialists, so you suggest to turn, by force or by choice, the whole population of citizens into servants of the military force, while they choose by free will to stay in the civilian corps ?

'Contestable'? Denying that our faction is wealthier under FM than under other systems is like denying that one is warmer in the sun than in the shade.

Ethicallycontestable. You perfectly know this wealth is stolen to the hands of the labourers.

What, exactly, does the money that comes in from FM have to do with the military? If anything, FM is detrimental to the military, as it restricts it's freedom of movement by subjecting ti to popular opinion.

*YOU* want to spend it for military. And I simply wish to remind you that thogh you promise all this wealth ti the citizens, only the government, corporations and the State-Faction benefits of the Free Market. Who gets all these credits ? The government, not the Citizens.

[GeneralTacticus]

No, only in a couple of bases

This si abotu supporting them from there, not keeping them there. Do you have vision problems?

It was PS for punishment sphere. And you suggest specialists, so you suggest to turn, by force or by choice, the whole population of citizens into servants of the military force, while they choose by free will to stay in the civilian corps ?

Given that this is all meant to be planned in advance, everybody who goes on the CP to build the abse knows exactly what they're going to be doing at the end. No-one who doesn't want to work for the military is obliged to go.

Ethicallycontestable. You perfectly know this wealth is stolen to the hands of the labourers.

'Stolen from the hands of the labourers'? My, my, but you do have quite the imagination. How, exactly, is the wealth stolen from the hands of the labourers when they never owned it in the first place?

*YOU* want to spend it for military.

I want us to have a military to properly defend ourselves, and we would have had it no matter what system we employed. It's entirely independant of the economy.

And I simply wish to remind you that thogh you promise all this wealth ti the citizens, only the government, corporations and the State-Faction benefits of the Free Market. Who gets all these credits ? The government, not the Citizens.

And all the people who benefit from the facilities built with the extra revenue, and the ones who get paid a better wage because their skills are in demand, and those who make money bbecause they were able to invest in the industries we privatised. So who actually lost out, hmmm?

Who gets all these credits ? The government, not the Citizens.

And what do you think we do with the extra credits? We spend them, thus benefitting our citizens.

btw, I don't really see what the problem is abotu the credits going through the government first, considering that without FM the extra credits wouldn't exist in the first place.

[GeneralTacticus]

Anyway, what's really ridiculous about your position is that we have here a clear problem with FM, and here we are proposing a solution, but instead of agreeing to it in order to benefit our faction, you say that we should accept all fo FM's problems because that's what we wanted to use - might as well say that we shouldn't try to get more nutrients than we need to keep everyone alive if we go Green, because Green has growth problems and we should just accept them...

[Cedayon]

To be fair, this proposed solution to this particular problem is somewhat less... palatable... than "grow more nutrients to combat a growth penalty" or "build children's creche's to combat an inefficiency penalty". This solution (concentrated military base) is necessary if we want to solve the problem (can't move anything outside of territory), but it's not a no-brainer in the RP-sense. Particularly with PS's being mentioned.

Of course, Pan is making this argument (perhaps solely) because of his RP/RL hatred of free-market and he hopes to use this problem as a point against FM come next decision time. If this problem is solved, all he could argue against would be that we have a military base with all sorts of (partially fabricated) atrocities going on.


Anyway, about the actual proposal: Use of a PS could be avoided if *all* citizens of the base were made into specialists, and you just crawl in the right amount of nutrients to feed them (preferably avoiding growth as that complicates the situation). Then you could have 1000 "drone faces" from whatever and you'd never notice. The RP justification has already been mentioned in an earlier post: it will be a military base, its residents will be almost exclusively military folks (the exceptions being support people, including empaths). Soldiers don't tend to riot over deployments, unless they're really off-the-wall.

[GeneralTacticus]

And that was exactly what I originally suggested.

[Cedayon]

*looks back at the original proposal* oh

*votes yes*