Unofficial: War with Morgan

[Drogue]

Is there support for a war with Morgan, as DBTS proposed?

Personally I think it's completely unjustified, hypocritical, against our ethos and our ideals and just plain evil (besides, i like that smilie )

Vote with your concience, vote No!

[Kirov]

At first I've really thought DBTS is simply bored... But this has gone too far. How can we explain such a dirty war?
Because of convenience?? Come on, we are peacekeepers not when it's convenient, our agenda is to unite Chiron behind us, not under our feet.
Because Morgan is liberal and runs 'wrong-headed' economy? Shame you, socialists, it's the worst oportunistic hypocrisy I've heard recently.
Do we really need the "Lebensraum" for our faction so much, even at the cost of thousands of lives? I'd rather live in the Hive then, as Yang is much more sincere about his agenda than our leaders...

Make food not bombs!

[Drogue]

I think so far no CCCP member has supported it. Its not becasue of his economy, purely because of convienience!!!

[Method]

Let us kill the idiot and slaughter all his children

no! kill him, mate with his women, enslave his children, and burn down his house!

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kirov
Shame you, socialists, it's the worst oportunistic hypocrisy I've heard recently.

Quote from what you've heard?

[Micha]

I voted NO, but I will serve my leaders as soldier whenever it´s needed. Do not declare war, but be ready! As long as Yang and Miriam ar around, it´s very good to know there´s smething solid standing between us and slavery far away.

btw: We don´t need the "Lebensraum" that Morgan has, let´s expand to the northern wastelands instead!

Long live our faction!

[AdamTG02]

Very good point about having room for expansion, Kirov.

I also voted NO. Morgan is a valued ally, and nothing has yet convinced me otherwise.

[Kirov]

Originally posted by Maniac


Quote from what you've heard?

*looking at his fungal joint in a puzzled way*

Heh, well... Only checking you... OK, OK, I simply need a rest...

[Method]

well, we don't need a war yet, but we DO need to beef up our military.

[Voltaire]

This is a farce.

You’re simply misrepresenting the issue, and this isn’t even an official poll.

Let’s have a proper debate on the issues here, rather than resort to this sort of blatant farce.

[AdamTG02]

You're right, it isn't an official poll.

This poll, and other unofficial polls, serve a purpose. They tell policymakers what the general sense of the population is on an issue. However, it's up to the policymaker to decide how to interpret that. If the poll results were as now (1 for, 6 against), one leader might interpret that as a decisive vote of 80%+ of the people opposing war. Then again, one leader might interpret that as the result of a biased poll that appeals to passions rather than reasoning. All unofficial polls can do is offer advice, and the choice of whether to listen to that advice is left with our Directors and Governors, who have the right and responsibility to post official polls.

[GeneralTacticus]

NO, NO, NO! There is no need whatsoever for a war on Morgan, especially not when he is our only ally and we are currently at war with the Hive. He has nothing we want (except land, and ther eis no shortage of that), he has done nothing to provoke us, and we need to conserve our resources for use against Yang.

[Voltaire]

Fine then, mount a successful military expedition against Hiverian forces, and capture one of their bases, and hold it; if this can be accomplished I will conceded. The reality is that we cannot wage a conventional war against the Hive, even with superior units at our disposal we are still outnumbered. Logistically a war with the Hive for the time being in unworkable; and also our pact with Morgan, so long as we are running an economic system other than free market will not last. He might even eventually declare war on us.

What is at issue here is not morality, ethics, or anything nearly as subjective or romantic as that. We need to look at the reality of the situation. We need land to expand, Morgan is in our way. He is weak, we can take him out with relatively little casualties on both sides. All those crying out that we cannot afford to go to war due to the fact that we are at war with the Hive, and we need allies. Consider the fact that as it stands we are not engaged in full scale war with Hiverian forces, far form it in fact. Mounting an invasion of Hivernain territory would be at the time unworkable. Furthermore Morgan as an ally cannot contribute anything to our war with the Hive in the first place as it stands.

And all those out there voting against the war on moral grounds; you are perfectly entitled to do so, but as Governor of the Twin Sea region I have to consider the welfare of the region before anything else, including morality. And when it comes down to it, the seizure of Morganite bases and the addition of those bases to the Twin Sea region as well as the expanded available territory for colonization are all beneficial to the region.

It is noble of us to attempt to act with some sense of morality with the power which we wield and not attempt to impose out political views on others (with the exception of the Hive whom few have a problem of eliminating), but the reality is that however noble it may be, it is foolish of us not to act when we can. We don’t need to have any moral high-ground for actions, and we would not be fighting this war over anything as trivial as ideology, religion, or even politics; but rather something tangible. Land and resources.

Realistically speaking, this war most likely will never fly with the public, and any official poll in regards to the proposed operation will fail; but simply because something isn’t popular does not mean it is not correct. I sand by my support for the operation, I cannot realistically be representing the Twin Sea region as governor and deny the benefits the region would derive form the war.

[GeneralTacticus]

Voltaire, explain how, exactly, attacking Morgan would help us to wage war on the Hive? Your oft-repeated 'we need an excuse to buidl troops' doesn't cut it, because the Hive war IS a vlid excuse to build an army, and if the public doesn't agree, that doesn't give you the right to destroy countless lives just to fabricate a new reason to have your own way.

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Voltaire, explain how, exactly, attacking Morgan would help us to wage war on the Hive? Your oft-repeated 'we need an excuse to buidl troops' doesn't cut it, because the Hive war IS a vlid excuse to build an army, and if the public doesn't agree, that doesn't give you the right to destroy countless lives just to fabricate a new reason to have your own way.

I’ve never claimed that attacking Morgan would help us wage war on the Hive. All I’ve stated is that if we intend to fight the Hive in a full fledged conventional war in the future, we need a military. That alone should warrant a buildup. In fact I don’t see a reason for us to engage the Hive in total war in the near future, given that logistically fighting a war abroad is costly in both lives and money. I’m arguing for a war on Morgan since it would benefit us, namely the region of which I’m Governor of, if we were to take a few of his bases to the east of our present expanse to enable ourselves to expand even further.

As for a war with the Hive; I see no reason to wage a full scale one simply because we disagree with their ideology. Frankly the Morganite war makes more sense since we actually gains something form it, that something, as I’ve repeated countless times, is territory, resources, and bases. Whereas with the war on the Hive we loose much more in terms of troops, that even a total victory might not be worth it in the short run.