Internal Affairs Office

[Method]

aw crap, i was hoping nobody would notice

[Cedayon]

I didn't look closely... TKG, I think you should know better

Sorry everyone, it hadn't occured to me to poll it, I thought it was pretty cut-and-dried that they're atrocities and shouldn't be allowed.

Now's too late for even a 2-day poll before the turnchat, so how about you folks discuss it here for a couple days and I'll poll it after that? ... or I can start the poll ASAP if that's what you want.

[Method]

in the meantime, i'll remove them. guess we'll have to wait for traditional mineral-enhancing facilities

[Cedayon]

Originally posted by TKG
in the meantime, i'll remove them. guess we'll have to wait for traditional mineral-enhancing facilities

I'm sorry, as you've done a wonderful job with Aurillion's industry, and I know Gennies would do wonders for it... but I'd be remiss if I permitted their construction without polling them first.

[Method]

right. now all we have to do is bribe convince War of Art to let us beeline to industrial nanorobotics

[Cedayon]

But I want mag tubes first! ... or are those on the way?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by TKG
aw crap, i was hoping nobody would notice

Gennies

I mean, they're so evil, even an Evil-Finn couldn't come up with them. I'd sooner see Lemmy as DPO than have gennies built in our great nation. You really want us to genetically enhance workers so they only care about their job? It's eugenics gone way too far. Besides, putting them in build queues without polling

TKG, I'm surprised at you

[GeneralTacticus]

There's no constitutional stipulation that genejacks must be polled, so the only thing preventing him from doing so is Cedayon's veto (which has now been issued), and if you see something wrong with creating genetically engineered workers, do you also object to the creation of presentient algorithms to automate things, or to breeding farm animals that have been engineered to be more useful?

[Maniac]

GT, humanism, the ethics of our faction, says nothing about presentient algorithms or farm amimals.
From a nihilist point of view, there is nothing wrong with using malgenetics on workers. From a humanist point of view however there is.

[GeneralTacticus]

Why not? I asked why the particular position was held, and your response was to repeat that same position. Why are humans different from sentient AIs?

[Maniac]

*shrugs* Fundamentally there is no difference between them. Humans have more value simply because humanist ethics say they have more value. Remember I believe ethics and morals are relative. There probably are no absolute truths or values according to me.

[Cedayon]

Originally posted by Maniac
There probably are no absolute truths or values according to me.

*sigh* and you're such a reasonable guy most of the time... ah well, a different battle for a different place...

I'll start the Gennie poll later today, with something like:

- Allow construction of Genejacks.
- Allow construction of Genejacks, but each and every one must be polled first.
- Do not allow construction of Genejacks.
- Write-in
- Xenobanana

Sound good?

[Maniac]

GeneralTacticus:

Just an observation. You have been talking about three different things in your last posts. First about genejack factories, then about presentient algorithms and breeded farm animals, and last about sentient AIs. In a humanist system I guess it would be logical to attach equal value to humans and sentient self-conscious AIs, but I think it would be going a bit far to give the same value to presentient algorithms. That would be seeing your computer programs as equal beings.

Cedayon:

*sigh* and you're such a reasonable guy most of the time...

But now not? Just a question, do you regard everyone disagreeing with you on some point as thinking unreasonable on that point?

ah well, a different battle for a different place...

The debate room?

Sound good?

While you're at it, perhaps you could also ask the same questions about the cloning vats. Then that issue is dealt with as well. Or of course we could wait until some governor actually offers to construct the cloning vats in his region.

[Cedayon]

Originally posted by Maniac
But now not?

Perhaps "reasonable" wasn't the word I was looking for, as your position isn't really irrational, given the information you have.

Just a question, do you regard everyone disagreeing with you on some point as thinking unreasonable on that point?

Oh goodness no, I don't use *my* position as the standard, that would be sheer arrogance... which I suppose I'm capable of, but it's not the case here.

The debate room?

Debate? That? Me? ... nay, from such withdraw.

While you're at it, perhaps you could also ask the same questions about the cloning vats. Then that issue is dealt with as well. Or of course we could wait until some governor actually offers to construct the cloning vats in his region.

Hmm, I wanted to wait until it wasn't quite so far away on the horizon, as the people's opinion can change... but since that's somewhat unlikely, I'll probably do it soon. Later, though, to avoid making it a multiple choice poll (misvote-caused-repolls are not my idea of fun).

[Maniac]

Perhaps "reasonable" wasn't the word I was looking for, as your position isn't really irrational, given the information you have.

Quite right. Given the little information we have about the nature of the universe we cannot make decent statements about the subject. Thus every debate between open-minded people about this issue should end in "We don't know." At most we can speak in probabilities such as "There probably aren't absolute truths or values" or "Using Okham razor, the opinion of that geologist has a (much) higher probability of approaching the 'truth' than the opinion of that young earth creationist has".