*Director of Social Engineering debate*

[Lemmy]

The candidates:

Kassiopeia (LSD)
Archaic (P4)

[Lemmy]

Now i got a question for both of you, what are your preffered SE choices that are available early on?

[Kassiopeia]

what are your preffered SE choices that are available early on?

Democratic / Green / Knowledge.

[Lemmy]

Democratic / Green / Knowledge.

if we first get Democratic, would choose to have only Democratic, even if it slows down our growth?

[Kassiopeia]

if we first get Democratic, would choose to have only Democratic, even if it slows down our growth?

I thought Democratic was +2 Growth , +2 Efficiency, -2 Support, and Green was +2 Efficiency, +2 Planet, -2 Growth? Anyways, I'd better check that. Edit: or can -2 Support be considered a hindrance to growth?

But I'll reply still (maybe you meant Green not Demo) - I'd optimise the situation and use Demo and Green when paired, to keep Growth from going to negative.

[GeneralTacticus]

I think he means our expansion, as the loss of the free minerals really slows you down early on.

[DeathByTheSword]

SE has to do energyallocation too right? at which stage would you go of the 50/0/50 standerd and why?

[Kassiopeia]

I think he means our expansion, as the loss of the free minerals really slows you down early on.

Possibly. In some cases the possible benefits from Demo wouldn't yet outweigh the loss of the minerals and of course I'd refrain from choosing it.

at which stage would you go of the 50/0/50 standerd and why?

If we end up on FM, I'd cut down a bit on econ to boost psych (to cover the police rating), like 40-10-50; if we need more psych, then tech will be reduced with 10 %.

I will try to push for as high a tech rate as allowed by the economy. Usually in early game raising the tech rate has no considerable effect, though.

[Lemmy]

I thought Democratic was +2 Growth , +2 Efficiency, -2 Support, and Green was +2 Efficiency, +2 Planet, -2 Growth? Anyways, I'd better check that. Edit: or can -2 Support be considered a hindrance to growth?

oops, thought demo had -2 growth. Because i never choose it at the start for some reason, i assumed it was growth, but it is because of the support, i hate having to pay maintenance for units, and the 10 minerals really help with new bases.

But you answered my intended question anyway

Possibly. In some cases the possible benefits from Demo wouldn't yet outweigh the loss of the minerals and of course I'd refrain from choosing it.

[Method]

what do you think about planned/wealth early on? or would you just run simple/survival? (i know some people dont like the efficiency and morale hits) i find that those settings are perfect in the early game because of the industry boost.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Lemmy
Now i got a question for both of you, what are your preffered SE choices that are available early on?

I believe I addressed this in my earlier speach (Which I will repost here later), but..

Frontier/Free Market/Wealth

I don't believe we should be even considering a switch to Planned until we can also go Demo, to counteract Planned's efficiency penalty.
Periods in Demo/Free Market/Wealth might also be advisable, however while we're still expanding in the early game, I believe staying out of Demo, so that we still recieve the 10 free minerals at each new base.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
SE has to do energyallocation too right? at which stage would you go of the 50/0/50 standerd and why?

At no time during this first term. I don't believe in going off the standard until such time as our efficiency rating is such that we won't waste energy by going this way. And *THAT* won't happen until Green becomes a worthwhile and useful SE, which won't happen during this first term, like I've already stated in my speach.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by TKG
what do you think about planned/wealth early on? or would you just run simple/survival? (i know some people dont like the efficiency and morale hits) i find that those settings are perfect in the early game because of the industry boost.

Not unless we also go Demo at the same time (-3 Efficiency is not a viable option.), and even then, it might not be wise when we're still expanding. Once we've hit efficiency limits then maybe, to stimulate a pop-boom, but before then, the support hit would make it not worth it.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Archaic
Greetings fellow citizens of Apolyton. My name is Archaic, and I address you today as the P4 canditate for Director of Social Engineering. By the time I am finished, I hope you have a better understanding of the policies I would push in this position if I were elected.

Unlike my esteemed opponent Kassiopeia, I can sum up my position in but one short word. Adaptability.

I feel our Social Engineering position should best suit our situation, but it should also fit into our ideological perspective. We are not savages, and so we should not act as such. Be us in war or in peace, we should not abandon our ideals.

As such, while I do not support the use of Nerve Stapling, I do however support usage of a single Punishment Sphere in a single Prison Base, where war criminals and other violent, unable to be rehabilitated offenders, would be put to work for the common good in useful tasks. Stationed to watch over them of course would be the bulk of our military power, a power I hope we may never need. Indeed, one would hope that the Punishment Sphere is never needed, and that its mere presence in this single base would deter the prisoners from rash actions. Of course, this is not to say that in extreme circumstances that it would not be used. Certainly dangerous war criminals who violate the UN Charter should be properly incarcerated such that they pay for their crimes.

While I see great benifits both economically and scientifically for our society in a Free Market economy, I also see the value of a Planned economy for brief spurts of growth. Under a Planned economy of course, we must also run under a Democracy, such that the inefficiency caused by this socialist economic model may be overcome. Under a Free Market, I see us as being more flexable. While Democracy is of course preferred, during periods in the first years of our colonies, a Democracy may cost us far too much in support than it gains us in efficiency and population growth. For these periods, a Frontier political model may be more appropriate, and indeed, I see us running under this sort of system for a great length of time.

As for Green Economics, I see a place for these as well in our society. But I do not see them within the next 100 years, within our lifetimes. The issue of Green economics will be debated by later governments, later directors. It is our duty to leave them with a society than can cope with the reduced growth, the reduced production and research through lack of energy, that this economic model will cause. And that is best achieved without putting unnecessary strictures on our economy. Our people will learn to cause less pollution sooner if they cause some pollution first, but if they never cause pollution to begin with, they will be stuck in a technological rut using old and surpassed equipment. In short, we must despoil the environment slightly now such that later we are in a position to be able to restore it to and keep it in pristine condition. If we run a Green economic system before we're ready, we could easily stife our societies development to the point where we're unable to remain its protectors in the future.

On the issue of Fundamentalism, or "Fundy" as it has come to be known, I am wholeheartedly opposed to the idea of any sort of religious theocracy, no matter if it be Catholic, Islamic, or any of the other religions of old earth. However, there are other styles of Fundamentalism that may be appropriate in certain circumstances. Styles based not on religion, but on ideals of philosophy, such as those of Sun-Tzu and Confucious, which I believe would be familiar to many of you. I see a use in these philosophies in our society when it comes time for us to gird ourselves for war. While I would hope such a situation never comes to pass, I am a realist, and I acknowledge that we can never hope to truly bring all the warring factions together united under the ideals of democracy without conflict.

On our societies social values, I must throughly rebut any idea that our society aspire to the ideals of "Power". As I stated earlier, we are not savages, so let us not act like them! However, I see places for both Knowledge & Wealth values in our society at certain points. Indeed, while this strays from the party line, I see a strong economy as being the ultimate driving force behind any research effort, and given the levels of expansion I would hope our society will eventually reach, aspiring to the values of "Wealth" may actually bring us in more research than the values of "Knowledge". In either case, our choice here must be carefully balanced between research and energy. There is no point researching all there is to research if our economy is such that we cannot turn this research into things!

Finally, while my opponent has made assurances to prevent drone riots, I find this an unreasonable demand of this directorship, given that we have no direct control over the work allocations or facilities built in bases. While I am certainly in favour of "doping" our citizens into Golden Ages through Psych allocation, I do not believe this should be a factor in the early years, where we should be focusing on a balance of economy and research. Our economy simply would be unable to sustain the inefficiencies created in the short term, and indeed, it may take just as long for altering Economy/Labs/Psych allocations to become reasonable as it is for Green economics to become workable.

[Nubclear]

Archaic: You say that unlike Kasseopiea, you are adaptable however you also say you are opposed to nerve stapling. Why, and does this mean you would never allow a nerve staple (even though it is not within your jurisdiction)?

Kasseopiea: Is what Archaic is saying true? Are you not adaptable? Will you simply follow one plan and change only if its absolutely or will you change if it is for the betterment of the empire?