*Director of Social Engineering debate*

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Archaic: You say that unlike Kasseopiea, you are adaptable however you also say you are opposed to nerve stapling. Why, and does this mean you would never allow a nerve staple (even though it is not within your jurisdiction)?

I am opposed to the use of Nerve Stapling on the basis of the economic sanctions that would take place due to it being considered an atrocity by all faction leaders. I would far prefer to solve any drone problems through Police (Under Planned or Green) or through Psych boosting facilities & Specialists (Under FM).
However, I also recognise that in certain situations, the use of Nerve Staples might outweigh their downside. For example, if we became so powerful that the AI ganged up against us and we were at war with everyone, my commerce concerns become irrelevant. And while the ethical concerns of Nerve Stapling still remain during that, I believe it would be better to Nerve Staple our people for 10 years than to let them perish in a senseless war.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Kasseopiea: Is what Archaic is saying true? Are you not adaptable? Will you simply follow one plan and change only if its absolutely or will you change if it is for the betterment of the empire?

I'm going a bit semantic here but flexibility (as mentioned in my earlier posts) and adaptibility are pretty darn close. I'm probably not as adaptible as Archaic since I aim for optimal Efficiency.

As a Director, the best of the 'empire' (read: the people) on the long run is always my primary goal. It would be strange to expect anything else from a government official.

---

(posted before in Nomination and CDC threads)

My goals as Director of Social Engineering can be squeezed to these words: Flexibility and Efficiency.

Flexibility; in all situations will I endeavour to reach the SE modifiers and energy/tech/psych rates best suiting our situation, be it war or peace. In early game I suggest having a tech rate as high as our economy allows.

Efficiency; as high efficiency as possible (as much as allowed by Flexibility) to ensure economical growth and to hinder drone problems. Also a high efficiency reduces the penalty from having tech or energy rates of over 50 % and the costs from choosing new SE choices is also negated.

In terms of base control, I do not support nerve stapling (an atrocity) in any case (barring immediate lost of the entire base), nor do I support usage of Punishment Spheres (although we probably won't have them by the end of the next term, I wanted to let you know) because of the moral implications and the horrid research penalty.

My preferred policy in SE choices is, Democracy as soon as possible, to balance the efficiency penalty (economy) and to encourage population growth (expansion).
Green as soon as possible, to increase efficiency and to conjure combat bonuses against native life and to have the ability to capture them. FM, though, is considerable in some situations; more energy means more research, though the Planet penalty from it is very disconcerting.
Knowledge as soon as possible, to increase efficiency even more, and to boost scientific progress.

Also, as D of SE I will not support Planned Economics; since our faction is the Peacekeepers, we won't even have the possibility to switch to Police State. Additionally, I will do my best to prevent any drone riots.

Of course, before tech level allows, I support the choices best suiting the situation.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia I'm going a bit semantic here but flexibility (as mentioned in my earlier posts) and adaptibility are pretty darn close. I'm probably not as adaptible as Archaic since I aim for optimal Efficiency.

That sounds pretty inflexable to me. Demo/Green might give optimal Efficiency, but efficiency isn't always worth it for Efficiency's sake alone. How do you plan to bootstrap our growth when the Green's growth penalty comes into effect?

[Archaic]

Well? I know you're on. Are you going to answer or not?

[Kassiopeia]

I apologize, I didn't notice your earlier post. The poll will be (hopefully) reposted so I hope my tardiness won't be a problem.

That sounds pretty inflexable to me. Demo/Green might give optimal Efficiency, but efficiency isn't always worth it for Efficiency's sake alone. How do you plan to bootstrap our growth when the Green's growth penalty comes into effect?

Well hopefully it won't come into play. Of course, this does involve a larger scale of looking at things, but I hope that the Directors of BP and Terraformation can help with possible growth problems (Children's Creches, nutrients), assisted with the credits efficiency nets. This might sound like dodging responsibility, but this is my method.
And I must reiterate that Efficiency and the Planet rating bring nice benefits.
If/when we need to pop boom, we can naturally let go of Green and switch to Simple or maybe Planned (but I must insist that Knowledge be on at this time to keep Effic from hitting rock bottom, we have an intrinsic -1 penalty for that already as it is).

Of course, in early game the absolute need of Effic is debatable, since we might end up with a very closely-knit empire or low energy ratings. A D of SE working on an early colony must have the 'balls' to let go of some of his goals for the benefit of the whole faction.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia Of course, in early game the absolute need of Effic is debatable, since we might end up with a very closely-knit empire or low energy ratings. A D of SE working on an early colony must have the 'balls' to let go of some of his goals for the benefit of the whole faction.

So in other words, you're flip flopping from your idealistic tree hugging because you know that a Green economy's unworkable until such time as we actually have an economic base in place?

You do realise BTW that CC's will be in when we have them anyway, so going on about Efficiency woes when we'll be getting +2 Effic per base thanks to them is rather pointless. Remember also, Cash Flow = Research & Cash Flow = Potential Psych Spending. In the early game, when we're not likely to meet any other factions too soon and therefore don't have to worry about our relations with them, once we have the ability to push Wealth Values, we should do so, and stay like that until such point that its numerous advantages are outweighed by the cons.

[Kassiopeia]

So in other words, you're flip flopping from your idealistic tree hugging because you know that a Green economy's unworkable until such time as we actually have an economic base in place?

Sigh. I knew this would go to this. Using such words like 'tree-hugging' is just provocative (and popularist). I guess if your goal is pure adaptibility, then you have no ideals at all. We can go the 'in other words' way till the end of time, but I have more important things to do with my life.

In the early game, when we're not likely to meet any other factions too soon and therefore don't have to worry about our relations with them, once we have the ability to push Wealth Values, we should do so, and stay like that until such point that its numerous advantages are outweighed by the cons.

Wealth? Maybe, if we don't get Cyberethics before Industrial Automation (the Wealth tech IIRC).
But nothing can really be laid in concrete until we get a look at where we've ended up. After that, it's time to shape up a strategy. What if we land in the midst of a sea of fungus, filled with mind worms? Capturing them would make us a military force to be reckoned with.

Now I'm falling for the 'what if' game witnessed here before. I apologize.

[Pandemoniak]

I want to point that :

Originally posted by Archaic I am opposed to the use of Nerve Stapling on the basis of the economic sanctions that would take place due to it being considered an atrocity by all faction leaders.

Nerve Stappling is bad because of economical reason ?????


I ask the P4 to tell me if they support Archaic's view on that.

[DeathByTheSword]

and again do not role-play TOO much please but as P4 statement please read our thread (first page)

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58004

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia Sigh. I knew this would go to this. Using such words like 'tree-hugging' is just provocative (and popularist). I guess if your goal is pure adaptibility, then you have no ideals at all. We can go the 'in other words' way till the end of time, but I have more important things to do with my life.

Hey, my campaign slogan is "A realist, not an idealist". That's not to say I don't have ideals, it's just that those ideals are realistically achieveable.
As for calling you a Tree-Hugger, well, you are rather one, aren't you? Calling for Green Economics before we even have a strong industrial base in place. Doesn't seem very flexable to me. Very idealistic, yes, but that doesn't mean it's a wise decision.

Wealth? Maybe, if we don't get Cyberethics before Industrial Automation (the Wealth tech IIRC).
But nothing can really be laid in concrete until we get a look at where we've ended up. After that, it's time to shape up a strategy. What if we land in the midst of a sea of fungus, filled with mind worms? Capturing them would make us a military force to be reckoned with.

Than that'll be the fault of our Science minister, and I already plan to yell at them quite a lot. All these excuses about going for SotHB early on are getting irritating. A direct path to Industrial Automation at the beginning is essential (With maybe a stopover for Formers if we land in an area without rainy/rolling tiles.). After that, the next goal should be Tree Farms and the lifting of resource limits. After that, Hybrid Forests.

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
Nerve Stappling is bad because of economical reason ?????

Yes, it is. Unlike you, I don't attempt to make moral decisions for others based on my own (warped or otherwise) view of the world, especially not while trying to go for a political position. I'll leave the ethics and morals up to the people as a whole to decide.

[Pandemoniak]

I did read your thread, DBTS.

On atrocities we support upholding the UN Charter

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by Archaic
Yes, it is. Unlike you, I don't attempt to make moral decisions for others based on my own (warped or otherwise) view of the world, especially not while trying to go for a political position. I'll leave the ethics and morals up to the people as a whole to decide.

Well, people did decide to follow the UN charter.

[AdamTG02]

A direct path to Industrial Automation at the beginning is essential (With maybe a stopover for Formers if we land in an area without rainy/rolling tiles.)

There's a lot of room for disagreement on that point. Could you state your reasons? I'd like to hear your argument, but you won't convince anyone by assuming your statement as a given.

[Maniac]

How do you mean "maybe" a stopover to formers? Do you think we can grow decently without having formers, forests and roads early on?

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak Well, people did decide to follow the UN charter.

Which places absolutly no restrictions on the use of Punishment Spheres, as evidenced by the in-game lack of sanctions from other factions when PS's are built.

AdamTG02
There's a lot of room for disagreement on that point. Could you state your reasons? I'd like to hear your argument, but you won't convince anyone by assuming your statement as a given.

First principles really. Read Vel's guide if you've got it (There should still be old versions around the place.). If I need to further explain the point after you've read it, just ask.

[SIZE=1]Maniac[/SIZE=1]
How do you mean "maybe" a stopover to formers? Do you think we can grow decently without having formers, forests and roads early on?

It all depends on the underlying terrain of our landing point. If we've landed in the jungle for instance, we might be able to get away with not having them until after we've aquired wealth.
In all likelyhood, I expect we'll need Formers before we reach Industrial Auto, but that may not be the case. I doubt though that we'll reach Ind. Auto. before 2115 like I'm used to doing with Uni., so I suppose it'll be almost certain we'll need it reasonably early for our expansion.