The Liberal Social Democratic Party Steps Out Of The Closet

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Ade
M@ni@c> Totalitarian? That's the basic lifeline for most European / Western Democracies...

Freedom is the basic lifeguide for Western Democracies. To give a simple examples, one may wear the clothes he want. Equal freedom means no one is allowed to do somethin more or less than anyone else. For example everyone has to wear blue clothes.

In other words, the ultimate freedom is the ultimate prison. Contraria sunt Complementa. Opposites touch.

[Voltaire]

Ade>
In that case I officially join the ranks of the Liberal Social Democratic Party. So what’s the membership count now?

[Anodyne]

Voltaire> Three

M@ni@c> Actually many European countries HAVE the lines of EQUAL freedom on their constitution. I think you've got my concept wrong. Mandatory freedom isn't freedom. By Equal freedom I meant that people aren't classified based on their race/gender/income class, etc... and by preventing anyone from removing anyone else's freedom I meant things like Theft, for example, when a Thief takes away someone's freedom for owning property (to put it as simply as possible), etc..

[Crisler]

Ade,

It is interesting that you speak of other factions having "set themselves standards that they follow more or less blindly" and then proceed to say we are willing to be felexable in all things ecept. Then you set a very rigid standard that you say you will not flex from.

Also I find it of interest that the only other faction to express any desire to work a more Green approach was the Fundamentalist Faction.o express ideas of a defensive only military, again a point that was first introduced by the Fundamentalist Faction.

You speak of equal freedom for all, again looking back over my older posts this is a virtue that the Fundamentalist Faction supports, seeking to stop the elitest system that dominated earth.

As I read your post it seems to almost mirror 90% of the original Fundamentalist Factions objectives. The only difference is your strong opposition to the Fundamentalist ideals. This is very strange considering that based on what you have described the Fundamentalist Factions seems to closest to your idealogically.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

[Voltaire]

Crisler,

I cannot speak for all party members, but the opposition to Fundamentalism which I have stems from two things (which are interrelated): 1) it hinders research; and 2) it encourages collectivism reducing creativity and individual thought.

Academician Voltaire

[Kassiopeia]

If you really regard this party so close to yours, go ahead and join us.

[Crisler]

I will agree that in the base game mechanics it does reduce the research score, however there are many ways to counter that.

As for the reduction of creativity or individual thought, this is purely wrong. In fact this is even wrong of Christians, not just Fundamentalists. What fundamentalist seeks to do is set a standard of morality for the colony to live by. In this case the Christina morality. Why is it so wrong to ask each person to love his neighbor as himself? To live by the Golden Rule? To follow the basic moralities that are universally excepted.

Without a moral plum-line we devolve quickly into a society with no moral rudder. We rationalize and justify all manner of behavior becuase it in fringes on our creativity, at least that is the argument. But when that creativity is really looked at, none want it. Oh they spout how it is personal freedom and should be allowed, but behind closed doors they talk of how aweful it is.

Classic example of old earth. A gentleman made arm by ****TING on his canvas. The people of a city found his work offensive and asked him to leave. People where in an uproar asking how we could stifle his creativity like that. The truth was 99% of the people polled by a world wide news agency, they claimed over 100,000 polled, said they would not want this mans creation in their city either.

We do not seek to limit or stop personal creativity or thought. We seek to provide society a moral plum-line to live by.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

[Kassiopeia]

Speaking my mind in a more serious manner;

First off I agree with Voltaire - Fundamentalism hinders research and doesn't promote individualism or the kind of freedom we strive for. Unacceptable if we wish to keep the human being progressing.

Secondly, I have difficulties in believing in a party that bases it's very foundation around a piece of literature I regard with great sceptiscm (sp), not to mention that I do not share your belief in a god. I'd be more impressed if you'd come citing The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy at me, at least it identifies the existence of a god, if I recall correctly.

[Crisler]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
If you really regard this party so close to yours, go ahead and join us.

I would rather we glory in the diversity of thought God has given us and unite in an alliance of parties. We can support each other on matters we agree on and in turn work and compromise and matters we dispute.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

[Crisler]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
. I'd be more impressed if you'd come citing The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy at me, at least it identifies the existence of a god, if I recall correctly.

Very well then, lets us agree to disagree on this point. You go forward in life with your towel and I with my faith and at the end of our lives we will see which is right.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Crisler
Classic example of old earth. A gentleman made arm by ****TING on his canvas. The people of a city found his work offensive and asked him to leave. People where in an uproar asking how we could stifle his creativity like that. The truth was 99% of the people polled by a world wide news agency, they claimed over 100,000 polled, said they would not want this mans creation in their city either.

You have misunderstood the purpose of art. Art is not made to please the masses, art is not made always to be comfortable for the mind and the eye. Art, a product of creativity, is made to drive people thinking, and in this case it served this purpose well. Also I would like to see a more reliable source of this "poll" and this allegded work of art, as I see this only as inventive "chicken soup for the soul", not something to use to gain leverage in a debate.

[Kassiopeia]

Very well then, lets us agree to disagree on this point. You go forward in life with your towel and I with my faith and at the end of our lives we will see which is right.

[Anodyne]

Ade,

It is interesting that you speak of other factions having "set themselves standards that they follow more or less blindly" and then proceed to say we are willing to be felexable in all things ecept. Then you set a very rigid standard that you say you will not flex from.

Now, flexibility is our standard, like I said, on matters that come to governing, Social Engineering. It includes aspects like admitting when we're wrong and watching to matters from all sides. It is not our fundamental backbone, but rather the flesh over those bones. Now, if we attempted to make a party that was based on flexibility and nothing else, could you call it a party? No. Police cars are blue but you cannot make a police car out of just a bucket of blue paint.

Also I find it of interest that the only other faction to express any desire to work a more Green approach was the Fundamentalist Faction.o express ideas of a defensive only military, again a point that was first introduced by the Fundamentalist Faction.

Yes, we have similarities. Just like every political party with each other when you deeply look at it, and I'm not denying it. You might have put them down before, but still remember that LSD was first mentioned before your party, and I have been spurring out our ideologies for already some time before posting this thread. Also keep in mind that politics is not contest about who made something first. It's who applies these ideals the best and makes the most sensible choices.

You speak of equal freedom for all, again looking back over my older posts this is a virtue that the Fundamentalist Faction supports, seeking to stop the elitest system that dominated earth.

As for "looking back over your older posts", look at my earlier comment. You have no need of accusing LSD for plagiation.

As I read your post it seems to almost mirror 90% of the original Fundamentalist Factions objectives. The only difference is your strong opposition to the Fundamentalist ideals. This is very strange considering that based on what you have described the Fundamentalist Factions seems to closest to your idealogically.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

Now, you claim this by saying that you support also Green economics, Defensive military and Equal Freedom? That sounds quite close to reductionism. Now, the "flexibility" and admitting our own mistakes is something you cannot greatly boast about. And differencies between Fundamentalism/Democratic systems are remarkable (and better left out of this short reply). In the end, all political parties might run for similar ends, but the means are different.

When you are really looking for something and really really want to find it, you can squeeze out just what you want from pretty much any writing... but I guess you're already familiar with that .

[Voltaire]

There are other dangers to fundamentalism, of any religion, that being if the religious texts are taken too seriously you end up persecution of those who do not meet the sets of standards dictated by the text.

Here is a question, would you require that if a women marries and is not a virgin that she be stoned to death as dictated by Deuteronomy 22:13-21?

These are the dangers of fundamentalism.

[Crisler]

No I would not support that law, nor most of the laws of the old testament, they have been fullfilled in the new testament which preaches of forgiveness and tolerance.

In fact a study of this particluar passage shows that there where issues in this time historically that might have contributed to these partilcuar laws but that these laws where since resended by other parts of the Bible.

I can look at any work of ideology and find fault in a specific section, that is easy, find fault in the overall philosophy, that can be harder.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction