The EDP Manifesto

[DeathByTheSword]

its SOOO quite on the forum on monday night!

but EDP what do you all think of a complet merger? and what are your problem with our current policy? and what is keeping you with CDC (finding 'them' really inactive)

[FlameFlash]

Doing a little catch-up work...

DBTS said this...
there is place for discussing here.

IF i am right we are talking about EDP and P4 merging? then a totally new party and policy would be in order. if i am wrong about the merging never mind

There's talk of a merge... though it's highly unlikely at this point in time.

TKG said this...
i am for merging the parties (the Poly Party for Progress, Prosperity, Exploration, and Discovery-P4ED? ) and creating a new policy which incorporates the best of P4 and EDP.

I like the name concept.

DBTS said this...
agree on the policy part but dont like the name (the short version sure but the long version s*xs)

Well, I liked it... Looks like something else we'd all have to debate on

TKG said this...
well, do we ever use our long version? no. in fact, i'm not even sure most people know what it stands for.

P4ED is a good name

I didn't know... and I do like the name... however I'm still not too warm on the idea of a merge.

DBTS said this...
thats right but EDP members we as p4 have seen the drawback of combining votes in the last election, and i didnt like it i am for a full merger but because you current party is differenet than ours i forsee some problems. but those can be overcome. so you have my vote for a full merger to form a totally independent party (and if EVERONE is against it i will drop my support for PB)

Combining votes? Mergers? Ugh... I am against the whole PB thing, but everything else... I'll wait and see if Adam has responeded his thoughts on my copy-paste quest I've haven't gotten very far yet...

Just to clarify -- this merger would be contingent on our withdrawing from the CDC?

Adam chimed in...
It's certainly not a possibility I want to rule out, particularly with the more moderate policy statements P4 members have just made. I can't bring myself, though, to commit either way on the subject.

I expected something like that... Anyway, I do agree... moderation would be key, though since the CDC hasn't really done much for us I wouldn't mind dropping it if that was one of the only stipulations...

(will continue reading)

TKG said this...
yes...P4 does not want to be a part of CDC. the P4ED (or whatever the new name would be) would have 10 members, but juliennew and tactical marine are being excluded from our votes since we havn't heard from them in a long time...

what are the issues right now that are preventing you from making a decision?

It would be nice to have a super-active party... that in itself would probably sinch some positions and votes...

More or less for me it's the fact that there have been some rather extreme statements in the past... I suppose most of them could be attributed to the disclaimer that Archaic now wears... though not all the statements can be... (can't remember what at the moment... though hate for any other party certainly puts a sour taste in my mouth. CCCP vs. P4 battles come to mind.

But The Bloody Baro said!
Are you guys talking about me? Because really I don't have a quarrel with the CCCP. It was just that one time I argued with Pandemoniank[sp].

Nope.

Adam speaks!
The main issues right now for me are wanting to think it over before committing to anything, and not being sure if I really want to withdraw from the CDC, which does share many of the EDP's basic principles.

Agrees...

I can't speak for either FlameFlash or TKG, but I am fairly sure the person being discussed is Archaic.

Guilty as charged...

But The Bloody Baro said!
I voted Nay on the building or use of PBs so I think that the P4 is totally agianst it. Why kill instantly when you can maim?

Another reason seems to have risen... EDP isn't militaristic...

Archaic speaks!
Yes, it's probably me that was being discussed. I tend to annoy a lot of people. I get rather heated about my views. On the up side, I'm very active, very vocal, seemed to attract a number of independants in the SE election (Don't ask me how, I don't know either.), and if I'm in complete agreement with you, I'm not likely to be yelling at you, am I? Yes, we've had our differences in the past, but they're the key words, aren't they? The past.

In any case, I abstained from the vote for PB's, and voted yea for the merge. Just FYI.

You're right... it is in the past... and more or less whenever you and I have butted heads it was procedural rather than anything really major...

TKG said this...
PB vote - Will we build a PB?
Maniac-ABSTAIN
DBTS-NAY
TKG-NAY
Juliennew-DEAD
Archaic-ABSTAIN
TacticalMarine-DEAD
The Bloody Baro-NAY

Juliennew-DEAD
TacticalMarine-DEAD


How about in the refreasher with the door stuck?

its SOOO quite on the forum on monday night!

DBTS said this...
but EDP what do you all think of a complet merger? and what are your problem with our current policy? and what is keeping you with CDC (finding 'them' really inactive)

Well, over here we're celebrating a holiday called Labor Day... so that's part of the problem on the US side... don't know about the rest as far as inactivity goes...

GT... what do you think... you haven't weighed in recently...

Adam, further thoughts?

I'm somewhat undecided rather than purly against like I once was...

[FlameFlash]

I won't go back and edit because I'm lazy and about to eat dinner, but the so quiet message was actually DBTS'.

[GeneralTacticus]

GT... what do you think... you haven't weighed in recently...

I think I'd be more in favour of associating with the P4 rather than merging... btw, if we do decide to merge, I think the 'Discovery' bit is redundant, as it would be covered under 'Progress'.

[The Bloody Baro]

I was JOKING on that maim thing. Notice the . Jese one of these days my jokes are gonna start a war. Also howcome Archaic argues all the time and more or less doesn't get in trouble, but when I argue I nearly always cause an interparty incident

[DeathByTheSword]

flameflash post was a bit of a post to (some parts anyways) dont take it personell

[FlameFlash]

Sorry guys, I was in an odd mood and getting annoyed with life in general (hey! I was hungry!) especially with myself for not keeping caught up on my own party's thread.

But I'm fed now, rested, over-heated, but I've raided one of my boss's stashes of dark chocolate, so now it's all good.

[DeathByTheSword]

ok then back to the serious talk of the merger. I myself do not like a coalistion but i am for a total merger. if we want to make a totally new policy i am ok with that but i would like to see a very active party. that ofcourse would not force there members to do anything but would give an party advice we all come up with on polls for example this way we can increase our influence (i know not every one like partypolitics but i for one belief that is can be an effective system) but thats what i think and ofcourse everthing is discusseble

[Method]

i agree that if a merger occured (which P4 unanimously agreed on) a new policy would be devised taking the best from EDP and P4. perhaps more detailed discussion could be conducted on IRC?

[FlameFlash]

If I had IRC... for now I think that we need to continue here...

What of it though, Adam, GT? My loyalties lie strongly with EDP, but creating a newer, louder, stronger party all together also sounds promising... *sighs* I'm being pulled in two directions!

[DeathByTheSword]

nobody is pulling nobody (i hope! ) and if the EDP doesnt want to merge or has an other idea i am always glade to here it and you can always download IRC from www.mirc.com (think)

[FlameFlash]

I take it that's a chat program?

Here's where I admit that I'm a Mac user and that I'm terribly lucky to even play SMAC, SMAX, CtP, and CivII & III let alone use the Internet as effectively as I once could...

[DeathByTheSword]

yes it is a chat program and it is very basic and simple there is a thread (CC thread where adam explains everything look there if there is a mac version) and mac?

[Maniac]

May I suggest "More Democracy. More Polls!" as the first point of a possible new party policy?

[AdamTG02]

I like the idea of using IRC. I also like the idea of a new party based on democracy and more reliance on polls.

The reason I haven't sent out a vote message so far is because I'm ambivalent about the merger with the P4 for two reasons:

1) We have a lot in common with the P4, but there are issues of disagreement. P4 supports a beeline to Industrial Automation and extensive use of crawlers. I've never seen a crawler fleet used to the extent that it sounds like is normal in a multiplayer game, so I'm less enthusiastic about crawlers and don't see the need to beeline to them and neglect other techs. The EDP doesn't yet have a formal position on technology, but in general we favor Explore and Discover techs over the others -- and beelining to Automation means focusing to a great extent on Build.

2) Although we may very well have more in common with the P4 than any other party, we have a lot in common with the CDC as well -- belief in Democracy, wanting a large extent of territory, skepticism (although not outright dismissal) of Free Market. None of these are deal-killing issues -- the P4 believes in Democracy as well, and I believe we are willing to compromise on the last two. (Exploration can be managed in FM either by an Empath base with crawlers or clean reactors, or with probe teams and transports.) The question is whether, given that we do have a good deal in common with CDC, we want to withdraw from it.

In any case, I am beginning the vote on merger now via PMs. I at least will take a while to decide, but I want to at least get this started since it's been hanging out there for so long. If the motion fails, I have a compromise proposal that I think would allow us to work with P4 while retaining our independence, but at the moment I have to get to class and can't spare the time to type it.

EDP members, feel free to take as much time as you need to think it over.
[edited for spelling]