The NON-ISSUE!

[Maniac]

Sorry for not replying earlier, but yesterday I was getting a 504 error every time I tried to access Apolyton.

The reason for parallel turns for AI diplomacy is the following: When you are negotiating with another human faction and they make you a proposal, you can say "Hold on a bit - I have to discuss it with my team and I'll tell you the answer tomorrow." You can't do that when an AI contacts you in-game, while being able to do so is rather important in a team game. Therefore contacting the AI in a parallel turn is allowed, to see what she says, and you can then start a poll in your forum to discuss what to answer.

But just happened to notice a CP on the way??

No. that colony pod was already noticed before the reload. IIRC I still have the save I made after declaring war on the Hive per Angel request, so if I find the time I could send that to Tassadar, so he can check that the CP was mind controlled in both the midturn2 version and the presend version.

No we knew about the CP before we played the turn, IIRC.

We had deduced before that there would be a PEACE transport with CP somewhere between Atlantis and that island. Only when we opened the CyCon turn, we noticed it had already landed on the island, and so the orders changed from sinking the transport with a cruiser and simply infiltrating the Angels without doing anything else to mind controlling the CP with the probe skimship before it continued to infiltrate the Angels.

I do still believe although we may be allowed to test AI response in a parallel turn, we should not be allowed to do one thing in the real turn and then reload and do another. I believe that the purpose of testing in parellel turns is exactly to avoid us having to do this.

I agree. The problem is I had not been warned the Angels would request a vendetta declaration. I assume our MAF assumed that I would simply choose not to declare vendetta instead of starting a poll on it and thus didn't mention it to me.

I agree. We tested it in a parallel turn, but when doing it for real, having decided on our actions, we found that the AI asked something different

Apparently she did ask a war declaration every time in the parallel turn. I just hadn't been warned.

I don't think we have that turn posted. We don't usually post midturns, just 'presend' turns, that are just before hitting end turn. I'm not sure the midturn even exists. I can't see one in our forum. Maniac will have to post one if he has it.

I upload midturns during our 48 hours, but I continiously replace by updated versions as I execute the agreed upon orders bit by bit. IIRC I still have on my harddisk though:
- a midturn1 save where we have noticed the CP but not yet mind controlled it nor infiltrated the Angels
- a midturn2 save where we have mind controlled the CP, infiltrated the Angels and declared war on the Hive (this one has not been used further of course)
- a presend save where we have mind controlled the CP, infiltrated the Angels and not declared war on the Hive

[Maniac]

Correction: I just checked and in the last midturn1 save the CP was already mind controlled. And that turn doesn't have a reload message, so I guess this is sufficient proof. When opening the midturn2 save I do get a reload message though, despite not remembering closing that save the wrong way. Would that reload message be caused by resuming play from the midturn1 save after the poll results were in?

[Nubclear]

Hi. This is the non-issue as I've cleared the CyCon save.
But if you guys really want to keep talking about it, go ahead

[Jamski]

This is pure and blatant CHEATING. It is simply playing ahead to see it the AI makes an offer you like or not. The CyCon are OBLIGED to declare vendetta against the Angels in their next turn.

This is OUTRAGIOUS CHEATING in every possible sense.

Sorry to shout but this is TERRIBLE!

-Jam

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Maniac
I just checked and in the last midturn1 save the CP was already mind controlled. And that turn doesn't have a reload message, so I guess this is sufficient proof.

Yes it is sufficient proof to me. Thanks function Maniac and God Tass.

btw Jamski is terrible isn't he?

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Drogue
This games purpose is fun,

The game's purpose is learning and achievement.
To achieve with cheats proves nothing, taken, but I don't play for fun.

[Nubclear]

Ah. I see Enigma has returned to pray to his god for salvation

[Drogue]

I disagree. Learning would come secondary to fun, because the purpose of SMAC, or any game, is enjoyment. Being good may aid your enjoyment, and so playing to become better may in the long run help your enjoyment, but being good without enjoyment ever is a futile exercise, since the only purpose of a game is enjoyment, and whatever leads to the most.

As you say though, that's beside the point, since cheating helps neither.

I didn't want to post a at Jamski's on the off chance that he was being semi-serious. However it did make me chuckle

[Jamski]

Drogue, you know me too well

Semi-serious my arse... that post never even sent in the application to study at serious school for beginners.

-Jam

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Jamski
The CyCon are OBLIGED to declare vendetta against the Angels in their next turn.

No, we don't. My first action in the simulation was, after contact with Roze, NOT to go to war with Hive.

I more or less now the feelings of my teammates, Jamski.

[Snowflake]

Nonetheless your post has been studied by some serious beginners, Jamski.

[Jamski]

Indeed.

Perhaps my trolling techniques are improving.

-Jam

[GeoModder]

Grrrrr...

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Kody


No you didn't, it was explained to you in the Hive-Cycon Embassy forum a long ago. Anyway it seems that parallel turns are allowed for base production and such (assuming that you don't explore). Parallel turns gives almost the same thing without the hours crosschecking things with a calculator.

Also which other faction used a similuator, I didn't think anyone else had the patience?

The reason why my EC and production strategy posts are so detailed was because I was repilicating the game on paper before putting it into the simulator and crosschecking.

Yes, we know about that, but I don`t see any mention of AI testing and this issue was completely new to us until Googlie inadvertly said it. Even our Prime Function didn`t know about that.

[Drogue]

GeoModder, meet mr bait, mr hook, mr line, and mr sinker