Hiverian Planetary Council Motion: Call of Cease Fire

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Voltaire
Honorable members of the Council the delay in response of the CPU delegation to our simple question only indicates their intent not to cooperate with the ruling and will of this Council, it seems obvious that they with their gratuitous accusations against the Human Hive wish to delay and distract this Council.

The CPU delegation have themselves given us enough evidence to convict on, their admission of being the ones to ‘fire the first shot’. Unlike the warmongering Imperialists this Council is merely interested in peace on Planet, have we asked the CPU anything so absurd that we should be looked upon like fools? Members of the Council what we request is simple, that this horrible war come to and end immediately, and that the CPU submit to supervised negotiations by this Council which we hope will return things to the status quo.

The CPU delegation has not addressed the issue at hand, that of will they submit to the Council or not. I plead to the people of the CyCon on behalf of the People of the Human Hive to look at your leaders, look at the atrocities they are committing in your name, and ask yourselves do you want your names and your children’s names to be stained with this blood mark? This war needs to cease immediately to prevent the destruction of more human life, more than enough blood has been shed in human history, we need not bring the horrors of war from Earth to Chiron.

Dear Chairman, I hope that you have realised by now that CPU is governed by Democracy , not Police State Dictatorship. We democratically decide each issue . Hive is a police state ruled by a handful of people who do what they want. And time of your posting was in time when almost all government functions were not available (it is time of night in Europe, you know, so any emergency voted responses were out of question too).

[Snowflake]

There have been accusations about Hive "backstabbing" the CPU and "supporting" the CC-PEACE war. While I believe that if CPU has any formal complaint they should file their own motion to the planetary council, I would like to offer some information just as a courtesy. Being the CC ambassador at the time and the current turn player I feel I am in the position of giving a comprehensive answer to aid the members of the council.

Before I took office in the Hive embassy at the CyCons, former deputy Chairman Jamski and Prime function Drogue had reached an agreement that the CC will vote for the Hive in the governor election in exchange of infiltration information of the PUT and PEACE. Following Jamski’s retiring from office after an unsuccessful coup, I assured the CyCons that the Hive would honor all of its prior commitments because the Hive values its integrity and would not allow its internal affairs affect the other factions unfavorably.

Subsequently Function Maniac notified the Hive that there was a change from their previous position regarding this issue. Using his own word, “While years ago that information had a very high value for us as we feared for our defence after we broke the pact, now the situation has evolved and we have been forced to adapt our intelligence services to living without the Hive information we had long hoped for. As a consequence the value of PEACE and PUT infiltrator information has already seriously decreased and in the future its value will approach zero for us. Therefore the External Affairs Functionality no longer felt it even to trade votes against infiltrator information, and thus our new proposal to offer a moderate sum of energy credits in exchange for a small part of the PEACE information you have.” Note all these happened before the governor election, as well as the CC-PEACE war.

Ever since the break out of the CC-PEACE war, the Hive has repeatedly communicated to Function Drogue and Function Maniac its intention of being neutral at this war, and have consistently kept its promise. We have never stated to anybody that the Hive is in support of this war, nor have we supported it in anyway materially. Our mere compliance to a previous agreement should in no way to be interpreted as our “support” of this war. Furthermore, when we realize that it is not right to watch innocent people being slaughtered and an independent faction being eliminated by a merciless and powerful faction, we choose to go public and make our concerns known to everybody. Even if we know perfectly that this motion will most likely cause animosity from the CPU, we have chosen this course of action over backstabbing the CPU. We feel that it is only fair to the CPU so that they have a chance to persuade the council regarding the validity of their actions, and to comply with the conclusion of the council.

Although the providing of the infiltration information was a result of trading agreement prior to the CC-PEACE war, I feel that the infiltration information has nonetheless aided the CPU’s aggressive action against the PEACE. The people of the Hive feel deeply sorry for this and are willing to provide any help we can to make up for the harm that we have inadvertently caused to the people of the PEACE.

[Voltaire]

I'd like to point out that without Hives approval the whole war between PEACE and CyCon would never have started at all. It was with Hives support that we decided to go to war. And the Hive was never neutral in any way about this, nono. They PROVIDED US with infiltration information of PEACE for example. So they KNEW and APPROVED the current situation beforehand. Now the winds have turned I see, well all I can say is HIVE BETRAYS ONCE AGAIN. They dont seem very trustworthy. As a victim of this backstabbing I warn any ally of Hive to be very careful with them, because you could be the next they decieve.

Members of the Council, they avoid the issue at hand once again. The Human Hive did not approve this war, we are here because we did not approve of it, we have never nor will we ever approve of aggression. The CyCon are trying to pin this on us, let me remind this council that it was CyCon troops that invaded PEACE territory, CyCon troops that are killing PEACE citizens, and CyCon troops that occupy PEACE bases.

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by obstructor Dear Chairman, I hope that you have realised by now that CPU is governed by Democracy , not Police State Dictatorship. We democratically decide each issue . Hive is a police state ruled by a handful of people who do what they want. And time of your posting was in time when almost all government functions were not available (it is time of night in Europe, you know, so any emergency voted responses were out of question too).

Dear members of this Council, I hardly consider warmongering imperialists to be in a state to judge Hiverian democracy. Simply because we do not conform to your style of democratic anarchism hardly means we’re undemocratic. The Human Hive is a Socialist State lead be the working class employing the principle of Democratic Centralism, the People are the sole sovereign in the Human Hive.

Members of the Council I request that these insults toward the Human Hive and its People stop, the CyCon are avoiding the issue here, they are trying to damage our good name for they themselves have none. Let this Council take note of their aversions to the charges.

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by Maniac The Consciousness does not recognize the fled PEACE military junta in Crossbone Way as an independent political entity. They're just a band of fled dictators. We have liberated PEACE from their oppressors, have held democratic elections with Geo Beta-2 as winner, and thus he has the right to the Council seat.

The Human Hive does not recognize the puppet University regime under the control of the CyCon, therefore we request that this council take into serious consideration the legitimacy of any University vote.

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by Maniac
If the other factions do not recognize the legitimacy of our PEACE vote, then this Council indeed is a farce, and its rulings meaningless.

If this council is a farce then leave it Function Maniac, you are free to do so. This Council will not and does not recognize your claim to the occupied territories. That is at what is at issue here, you cannot try to use the occupied territories for a vote because they are what this council is contenting.

[Voltaire]

I will not let this Council waste time on procedural issues while people are dying. A compromise must and will be reached. This Council should recognize the University vote independent, and the vote of the true PEACE government. The CyCon are attempting to delay proceedings of this Council through their sophistic rhetoric, and I for one will not stand for it. Let the vote continue.

[Hercules]

Even in our escape pods, the Peace leaders and we pirates, listening to the broadcasts, are overwhelmed by the support of good, decent, honorable, hard working, and intelligent people of the highly respected Hive and Free Drone nations.

Our spirits are uplifted.

[Nubclear]

===VOTE===

VOTES YEA:
Chairman Voltaire of the Human Hive

VOTES NAY:
Mani Alpha-3 of the Cybernetic Consciousness
Mani Alpha-3 of the Planet University of Technology

Please cast your votes, people

[MrWhereItsAt]

Honoured Chairman Voltaire,

you seem to be wanting to keep this discussion on the topic at hand, yet it appears you have personal vendettas of your own against the CPU. Although I speak with the utmost respect that should be paramount to any diplomatic negotiations between fellow peace-loving factions, I have to ask that you please either restrain yourself on your personal (and I hope, not indicative of the Hive in general) decision to deny the authority of parts of the CPU government over its own members, or to allow negotiations to continue conducted by a less biased member of your diplomatic team. Some such statements as you have made are deeply offensive to the University, who form a legitimate and Democratically-empowered part of the CPU collective, and cannot be based on anything but emotion, with no appeal to logic on humanitarian or any other grounds.

You speak too of compromise, yet the CPU and this Council has yet to see such a compromise proposed, or negotiations entered into. So far there have been what can only be seen as ultimata and veiled threats, both directed entirely to the detriment of the CPU and its citizens. Please propose a compromise or enter negotiations, or do not speak of such things, where they don't exist.

Thank you.

[foolish_icarus]

I think its fair to say PEACE votes YEA

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Voltaire
I will not let this Council waste time on procedural issues while people are dying. A compromise must and will be reached. This Council should recognize the University vote independent, and the vote of the true PEACE government. The CyCon are attempting to delay proceedings of this Council through their sophistic rhetoric, and I for one will not stand for it. Let the vote continue.

The University may have a free vote then. The University has elected Function Mani Alpha-3 as it's representative. Archaic remains honourary chancellor, but Mani Alpha-3 is their duly elected representitive, and as such casts their vote for them.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Members of the Council, they avoid the issue at hand once again. The Human Hive did not approve this war, we are here because we did not approve of it

While Comrade HongHu is correct, that she did honour the original deal, the fact that we were also offered credits to aid in the war with PEACE, seemed to strongly suggest that you supported the war. You do not approve of it now. That is different.

Moreover, this council has no business re-writing international law and backdating it. War is not, and never has been, illegal. Frowned upon maybe, but not strictly illegal.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Dear members of this Council, I hardly consider warmongering imperialists to be in a state to judge Hiverian democracy. Simply because we do not conform to your style of democratic anarchism hardly means we’re undemocratic.

No, simply because you run a Police State you are undemocratic.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Members of the Council I request that these insults toward the Human Hive and its People stop, the CyCon are avoiding the issue here, they are trying to damage our good name for they themselves have none. Let this Council take note of their aversions to the charges.

There are no charges. You have accused us of something that is legal.

Originally posted by Voltaire
If this council is a farce then leave it Function Maniac, you are free to do so.

Actually that isn't true. There is no option to leave the council.

Originally posted by Voltaire
the ruling and will of this Council

The council has not voted or ruled, and has no precident to do such. We have never ratified the UN Charter, and our acceptance is not part of being part of this council, since we cannot opt out of this council. As for your allegation that war is an atrocity, it is clearly not defined as such, since the game defines atrocities very specifically, as we have said all along. War is not illegal, the UN Charter is not our guiding doctrine, else the Peacekeepers mission to make it our doctrine would have already been accomplished, and thus this council has no legal basis for any kind of ruling on the matter.

I also find the irony of a faction that is so against democracy that their official newsletter states that democracy is wrong, a faction that runs a Police State form of government, is advocating a democratic way of enforcing their so called morals.

In short, we will happily enter into council supervised negotiations, providing you can get PEACE, the faction that has so far not agreed to such, to agree. However we will not call a ceasefire until we have an agreement. Ceasing hostilities is one of the things that needs to be discussed.

Originally posted by Voltaire
I plead to the people of the CyCon on behalf of the People of the Human Hive to look at your leaders

The people have once against elected the CyCon government, which came into power a few days ago.

Originally posted by Voltaire
look at the atrocities they are committing in your name

We have not committed an atrocity, as we have continually said. The council and game defines atroicities specifically, and we haven't committed any.

Ladies and gentlemen of the council. The Hive had produced not a single shred of evidence for these so called atrocities they claim we have committed, and as you are well aware, atrocities are clearly defined, and war is not one of them. War is not illegal. The UN Charter is a piece of old earth legislation, and has never been ratified on Chiron. Brother Lal did try, in the begining, but his followers quickly disbanded.

CPU has broken no international law on Chiron, despite the wild allegations of the Human Hive. We are willing, as we have always been, to negotiate with PEACE. However hostilities will not cease until an agreement is reached.

The Hive have brought before this council a motion by which is has no authority. By the same token, could the council decide to vote on whether the Human Hive must cease its use of a Police State to repress its people? No, it couldn't, because that is not illegal. Neither is conflict. If war is illegal, the Hive in pursuing their Vendetta against the Angels would have broken it. If declaring war is illegal, then the Drones, in declaring Vendetta upon PUT, would have broken it before. However it is not illegal. This council is having it's time wasted, as this is not an issue it has a mandate for. If the governments of those other nations wish to gang up on us, then that is their perogative. But this is not a council matter, and to use it as such is misusing the council. CPU foreign policy is not under the councils mandate, unless they commit atrocities, as defined in game. We haven't.

I join our Prime Function in non-recognition of the former PEACE goverment. I also ask that if the Human Hive wishes to vote on a council issue, they call the council in the proper manner. There are a set list of things that council is here to discuss, and they are the options of reasons to call a vote of the council. I ask that this council disband until it is called in the proper manner, to discuss somethign which it has a mandate to discuss. There are rules governing the calling of the council, such as if a faction calls it, it must wait 20 years to call it again; that no issue may be brought before the council more than once in 20 years; and that some technologies must be discovered before the council can be called on certain motions. This motion is not even an option. The truth is the Human Hive has called the council in this manner because it cannot call it officially, since it is not an issue the council can vote on. Therefore, until such discoveries are made that we might be able to call the council on the issue of war, I ask that this council disbands. This issue is not a legitimate issue for the council to rule on. If factions wish to discuss it amongst themselves, that is their business, and they are free to do so, but calling a council for an issue with which the council cannot officially vote on is making a mockery of this institution. The game is quite clear on what can, and cannot, be brought before the council. We have broken no laws, we have broken nothing that is an option for law, and this council motion is not an official motion that may be called.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Voltaire
This Council should recognize the University vote independent, and the vote of the true PEACE government.

The Council should recognise that no government that is not directly empowered by the people should be able to vote for its people. When a faction democratically elects its leaders to speak for the faction, they are given the right to vote on behalf of their people. The Human Hive is a Police State, however it is spun. The people have not elected the Hive leaders. Therefore, I do not see why the Council should recognise their votes as the votes of their people. The people should decide policy, not some elite who happen to run the Police State.

I also find it confusing that a faction that refuses to give its own people a say in its rule feel they should have a democratic say in the ruling of other factions.

The UN Charter is not the charter that binds this council. Large part of the UN Charter are about the make up of the UN, such as the security council, the Secretariat, none of which exist on Chiron. The UN Charter states that to enter the UN a nation must be accepted by the security council, and if necessary, a vote of all members. None of our factions have been through such. That is why the UN Charter is not applicable on Chiron.

The Hive has stated that our involvement in the Council ratifies the UN Charter. There are two problems here. Firstly that the Council does not rule according to the UN Charter. Secondly that there is no opt out of the Council, and thus our involvement ratifies nothing.

There would be no point in the Peacekeepers earlier mission to ratify the UN Charter on Chiron, if it already was. Their movement died shortly after Planetfall, and the UN Charter is not ratified by this Council, it does not give this Council a mandate, nor does it give us the international law we currently use. That is simply the atrocity prohibitions.

Sticking to international law on Chiron, we have broken no law. That is why it is not the Council's place to rule on this. The Council cannot enforce an Earth doctrine that has not been ratified on Chiron.

[Voltaire]

you seem to be wanting to keep this discussion on the topic at hand, yet it appears you have personal vendettas of your own against the CPU. Although I speak with the utmost respect that should be paramount to any diplomatic negotiations between fellow peace-loving factions, I have to ask that you please either restrain yourself on your personal (and I hope, not indicative of the Hive in general) decision to deny the authority of parts of the CPU government over its own members, or to allow negotiations to continue conducted by a less biased member of your diplomatic team. Some such statements as you have made are deeply offensive to the University, who form a legitimate and Democratically-empowered part of the CPU collective, and cannot be based on anything but emotion, with no appeal to logic on humanitarian or any other grounds.

Forgive my lack of observation but could you please show me my personal vendettas since I seem to be lacking awareness of them. I merely attempt to be both objective and interesting in my speech as to further progressive discussion, in that I occasionally employ emotive terminology to highlight crucial arguments, but nothing of the sorts which should to anyone indicate anything of the sorts akin to a personal vendetta.

I have been respectful in my speech toward the CPU for the most part, if I have stepped over the line then I do sincerely apologies, but if I have done so it was not without provocation.

You can be assured by anyone in the Hive that I attempt to be as objective as possible, and that I am as far from biased as an individual might be capable of under these circumstances. Furthermore as Chairman it is my duty to oversee and partake in any diplomatic exchanges on behalf of the people, I am merely exercising my duty as Chairman on behalf of the People.

Some members of the CPU would do well to follow your advice, their accusations against the Hiverian government and its People are not only unwarranted but insulting. Furthermore the Hive stands by its statement as to the arrangement between the CyCon and the University. I point out a conclusion drawn from observation, not any appeal to emotion.

You speak too of compromise, yet the CPU and this Council has yet to see such a compromise proposed, or negotiations entered into. So far there have been what can only be seen as ultimata and veiled threats, both directed entirely to the detriment of the CPU and its citizens. Please propose a compromise or enter negotiations, or do not speak of such things, where they don't exist.

Compromise can only be reached after a cease-fire ensues, this Council should not negotiate while you are still pursuing aggressive action. We ask that you sign a ceasefire so that negotiations may ensue and compromises can be reached. I do sincerely apologies if you are unable to comprehend our concerns, but we cannot allow ourselves to enter negotiations while people are dying, let us first stop this so that we may talk.

[Voltaire]

The University may have a free vote then. The University has elected Function Mani Alpha-3 as it's representative. Archaic remains honourary chancellor, but Mani Alpha-3 is their duly elected representitive, and as such casts their vote for them.

Function Drogue I said nothing of University democracy, I merely pointed out that in the eyes of our faction the CPU should be considered one entity, not two distinct ones.

While Comrade HongHu is correct, that she did honour the original deal, the fact that we were also offered credits to aid in the war with PEACE, seemed to strongly suggest that you supported the war. You do not approve of it now. That is different.

Moreover, this council has no business re-writing international law and backdating it. War is not, and never has been, illegal. Frowned upon maybe, but not strictly illegal.

War has never been illegal, aggression is the issue at hand and it is illegal. There is nothing illegal about defending oneself against aggressors, there is illegality and immorality in the act of aggression itself.

No, simply because you run a Police State you are undemocratic.

Well thank you for clarifying that Function Drogue, seeing as you are the omniscient source of definitions we shall consult you from now on rather than a dictionary, seeing as there is only one kind of democracy, CyConian democracy, and everyone else is a dictatorship.

There are no charges. You have accused us of something that is legal.

Argumentum Ad Nauseum Saying it over and over again won’t change the fact. The evidence in the charter was presented clearly.

Actually that isn't true. There is no option to leave the council.

Burification Fallacy The option to leave the Council exists, you can chose to recluse yourselves from Council proceedings.

The council has not voted or ruled, and has no precident to do such. We have never ratified the UN Charter, and our acceptance is not part of being part of this council, since we cannot opt out of this council. As for your allegation that war is an atrocity, it is clearly not defined as such, since the game defines atrocities very specifically, as we have said all along. War is not illegal, the UN Charter is not our guiding doctrine, else the Peacekeepers mission to make it our doctrine would have already been accomplished, and thus this council has no legal basis for any kind of ruling on the matter.

When the Council rules, not before. You agreed to the Charter when you signed up for this mission. You can recluse yourself from the Council. War is not an atrocity in legal terms, morally it always is, aggression is illegal. You’re right, war is not illegal, aggression is. The UN Charter is the guiding document of international law of Planet, saying otherwise won’t change the fact.

I also find the irony of a faction that is so against democracy that their official newsletter states that democracy is wrong, a faction that runs a Police State form of government, is advocating a democratic way of enforcing their so called morals.

If you so desire to subscribe to moral relativism do so, but to the realists of us it does not change the immorality of war and aggression. We stand for a People’s Democracy, not the anarchist democracy of the elites which you call democracy, authoritarianism and democracy are not incompatible.

Furthermore I would challenge you to back up you statement about our “so-called” morals. Do you deny that aggression is wrong? That killing innocents is wrong? If so I would more than welcome the challenge from your camp, a challenge which I would accept and defend morality for what it is against your nihilism.

In short, we will happily enter into council supervised negotiations, providing you can get PEACE, the faction that has so far not agreed to such, to agree. However we will not call a ceasefire until we have an agreement. Ceasing hostilities is one of the things that needs to be discussed.

You’re in luck Comrade Drogue, I’m certain PEACE will agree to a ceasefire, if so then will you agree to one so that we can talk? Yes? No?

The people have once against elected the CyCon government, which came into power a few days ago.

Then either your people were ignorant and/or stupid enough to elect a warmongering government like that, or the integrity of the elections cannot be fully trusted. Forgive my socialist sensibilities if I see little merit in the man who supports murderers in office.

We have not committed an atrocity, as we have continually said. The council and game defines atroicities specifically, and we haven't committed any.

The death of even one innocent in your war is an atrocity.

Ladies and gentlemen of the council. The Hive had produced not a single shred of evidence for these so called atrocities they claim we have committed, and as you are well aware, atrocities are clearly defined, and war is not one of them. War is not illegal. The UN Charter is a piece of old earth legislation, and has never been ratified on Chiron. Brother Lal did try, in the begining, but his followers quickly disbanded.

Innocents have died, need I say more?

Aggression is illegal.

You agreed to the UN Charter when you signed up for this mission which funny enough was sponsored by the UN.

CPU has broken no international law on Chiron, despite the wild allegations of the Human Hive. We are willing, as we have always been, to negotiate with PEACE. However hostilities will not cease until an agreement is reached.

Keep saying it, maybe it will come true.

A brilliant idea Comrade Drogue, while PEACE is at the negotiations table you keep killing more and more of their citizens. Dare I say we should award you the Nobel Peace Prize.

The Hive have brought before this council a motion by which is has no authority.

We have no authority to bring about motions?

By the same token, could the council decide to vote on whether the Human Hive must cease its use of a Police State to repress its people?

You seem to have trouble understanding the notion of sovereignty. The Human Hive and its People can decide how to govern themselves, but we cannot decide how others should govern themselves. You violated PEACE sovereignty, we are violating none.

No, it couldn't, because that is not illegal.

No, because it is a matter of sovereign jurisdiction.

either is conflict.

Agreed, conflict is not illegal, aggression is.

If war is illegal, the Hive in pursuing their Vendetta against the Angels would have broken it.

We would remind the Council that the Data Angels declared war on us, they are the aggressors and should be prosecuted just like the CyCon.

This council is having it's time wasted, as this is not an issue it has a mandate for.

Then leave.

If the governments of those other nations wish to gang up on us, then that is their perogative. But this is not a council matter, and to use it as such is misusing the council. CPU foreign policy is not under the councils mandate, unless they commit atrocities, as defined in game. We haven't.

If the Council decides to make it its matter it is. CPU foreign policy is not under the Council’s mandate, but your actions are. Just as if you were to kill someone you would be prosecuted in a court of law, so too in foreign relations if you attack someone you should be prosecuted.