Announcement

**Maniac** · February 29, 2004, 17:37

I'm glad the Hive decided to raise this issue, as we already offered a peace treaty and a return of bases to PEACE after the assimilation of Liar's Lair. We haven't yet received an official answer of the PEACE government to that offer though. Perhaps this initiative can restart negotiations. Unfortunately PEACE and Hive ships are too slow to reach us soon, but we have a few impact cruisers within range of the Hivean plasma cutter and the PEACE transport carrying pirate leaders fleeing from Atlantis. On one of those cruisers is our Foreign Affairs Function Drogue Beta-8, so perhaps we could agree on a set of coordinates to send our cruisers to, so the three parties involved can meet and start high-level negotiations. Drogue Beta-8 has prepared an official statement, so perhaps he can make it public here when he has read this.

**FlameFlash** · February 29, 2004, 19:16

While of course simply an unofficial comment, the proposition from CyCon was much worse for PEACE than a simple peace treaty and return of bases.

**Drogue** · February 29, 2004, 21:27

Dear Planetary Council members. I am sorry for the delay in this reply, it had to be ratified with the rest of the CPU government. Here is a reply to the motion presented by the Human Hive:

The Hive is concerned about reports of increasing violations of international humanitarian law.

CPU has committed no such violations. Humanitarian law forbids the use of Planet Busting technology and nervestapling, neither of which have been used by CPU. We would ask that that comment be removed, or these reports produced, so that we might cross examine them and show them to be false.

We are gravely concerned that given the increasing likelihood of a thorough occupation of the PEACE territory by the CPU forces, coupled with the approaching winter, that the situation in PEACE has the potential to become an even greater humanitarian disaster.

Former PEACE bases are constantly having more infrastructure and facilities built in them. They are in a better position to survive the winter than they were under PEACE rule. Also, CPU objects to such emotive terms. It is not PEACE territory, it is CPU territory. Seeing that the CPU currently has a Democratic system of government, the former PEACE provinces have an equal say in the governing of the CPU as any other provinces. The same is not true of the Hive, where all citizens are crushed under the rule of your Police State.

The Hive believes that the Planetary Council has the overriding obligation to stop the suffering of innocent civilians and prevent a de-stabilizing conflict spreading to other factions on the planet.

Innocent civilians are not suffering. Former PEACE bases are productive and are having facilities built. War will not spread to other factions, presume those other factions do not interfere. We agreed with the Hive government before the war that they would remain neutral. We have no, nor ever have had, plans to attack any other faction. We question the logic of a faction claiming that our unrelated war is de-stabilizing the region, when they decided to remove the Pact between our factions. Surely that has done more to de-stabilize relations between our factions, than a completely unrelated war. As we have said on many occasions, our war with PEACE was not an indication of aggressive intent, it was an act of desperation at the way we had been treated by PEACE. We have explained the way we were treated by them, and why we felt our relationship was beyond repair due to that. We are surprised that, while at the time the Hive had no problem with it, at least none that was raised during many discussions with Hive ambassadors, but now decide to mention it. Indeed, we believe this may have more to do with our agreement with the former PUT than any concern over the welfare of former PEACE citizens. We would ask the Hive, if this is the case, to stop playing politics with former PEACE citizens. To stop trying to use their issues to take a swipe at CPU, and to be honest with this Council. If you wish to discuss atrocities we are more than happy to, both those that you falsely accuse us of, as well as the way you refuse to give your citizens a say in even the most basic matters.

The Hive motions the Council to take immediate action on this matter in order to prevent a humanitarian disaster and to prevent a threat to stability throughout Planet.

There is no humanitarian disaster, and the only threat to stability is if we are attacked, or if another faction interferes in the war between CPU and PEACE.

The Hive affirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the PEACE and the right of all refugees and displaced persons to return to their homes

CPU affirms the right of all Hive citizens to self rule. However we understand that the Hive is a sovereign state, and as such we have no right to have a say in Hive policy. All refugees and displaced persons may return to their homes. We do not, and have never, targeted civilians. We have no desire to harm anyone but the PEACE military, and all former PEACE citizens have the full rights every CPU citizen has.

The Hive calls for an immediate cease fire between PEACE and the CPU.

We have offered a unification agreement to PEACE, where we would allow all PEACE citizens to become fully-fledged CPU citizens, with all the rights that entails. We would allow their government to join with ours, and become one faction. That was flatly refused. We have tried to begin negotiations, but PEACE have refused to discuss anything with us.

We emphasize that the authority of the Planetary Council must achieve a political solution to condemn the CPU invasion of the PEACE territory and to establish that all violence and acts of terrorism from the CPU are unacceptable.

There have been no acts of terrorism, and so I would ask that comment be withdrawn. The Planetary Council has no place in a war between two nations. We feel we were wronged by PEACE, and tried diplomacy first. The relationship was unsalvageable, as we have explained before. Our last option was war. We have committed no atrocities, no acts of terrorism, and have targeted nothing but the PEACE military. We have done nothing whatsoever that is banned by international law. Therefore, the Planetary Council has no mandate to intervene - It is there to uphold international law, and no international law has been broken.

- Drogue Beta-8, Foreign Affairs Function for CPU.

**Drogue** · February 29, 2004, 21:33

Originally posted by FlameFlash
the proposition from CyCon was much worse for PEACE than a simple peace treaty and return of bases.

PEACE diplomats explained to us before, that they were continually charging higher prices, and playing factions against each other, because they gained from it, and it was to be expected. The fact that you could do it, and you gained from it, made it ok. Follow that logic through for us. You were continually making trading hard, and undesirable for us, both in game and in RL. We had more to gain from war, and because of the arguments you had used, that actions that we found questionable were justifiable because you gained from them, and they were logical for you, we felt the same applied. You did not offer us favourable conditions when you had a stranglehold on our relations, why should we offer you conditions that are worse for us when we are in a similar position?

**foolish_icarus** · February 29, 2004, 23:35

Arrrrr, worm ****, every single word. By neptune, you borgs do put a lot of effort into yer lying. Might even have fooled us, if we weren't sober. Too bad you stole all our xenorum!

**Voltaire** · March 1, 2004, 00:03

CPU has committed no such violations. Humanitarian law forbids the use of Planet Busting technology and nervestapling, neither of which have been used by CPU. We would ask that that comment be removed, or these reports produced, so that we might cross examine them and show them to be false.

Honorable members of the Council I would like to remind the CPU representative that this Council has as its mandate the United Nations Charter from Old Earth. The Charter forbids acts of aggression and infringement of sovereignty of another faction, the CPU are avoiding the issue, they do not deny they were the aggressor and nor do they deny that they violated PEACE sovereignty.

Former PEACE bases are constantly having more infrastructure and facilities built in them. They are in a better position to survive the winter than they were under PEACE rule. Also, CPU objects to such emotive terms. It is not PEACE territory, it is CPU territory. Seeing that the CPU currently has a Democratic system of government, the former PEACE provinces have an equal say in the governing of the CPU as any other provinces. The same is not true of the Hive, where all citizens are crushed under the rule of your Police State.

This Council should not stand for such sophistry; you are the aggressors and the occupying forces. The fact that you have built infrastructure does not legitimize you in the eyes of the PEACE populace, you invaded their land, took the lives of their soldiers, and caused destruction to their homes. The democracy of warmonger is no democracy at all.

As Chairman of the Human Hive I am deeply offended by the attempts of CPU to distract you from the issue of this meeting, that of their act of aggression, by insulting the peace-loving people of the Human Hive. Our government provides everything for its people; we are a People’s Democratic Dictatorship under the direct control of the People of the Human Hive following the principles of Democratic Centralism. You call us tyrants because we refuse to let those who would harm the people do so, if this is tyranny and what you exemplify democracy I for one cannot say I want your democracy. But this aside, we are willing to look away from the insult and work together for a constructive solution to the problem.

Innocent civilians are not suffering. Former PEACE bases are productive and are having facilities built. War will not spread to other factions, presume those other factions do not interfere. We agreed with the Hive government before the war that they would remain neutral. We have no, nor ever have had, plans to attack any other faction. We question the logic of a faction claiming that our unrelated war is de-stabilizing the region, when they decided to remove the Pact between our factions. Surely that has done more to de-stabilize relations between our factions, than a completely unrelated war. As we have said on many occasions, our war with PEACE was not an indication of aggressive intent, it was an act of desperation at the way we had been treated by PEACE. We have explained the way we were treated by them, and why we felt our relationship was beyond repair due to that. We are surprised that, while at the time the Hive had no problem with it, at least none that was raised during many discussions with Hive ambassadors, but now decide to mention it. Indeed, we believe this may have more to do with our agreement with the former PUT than any concern over the welfare of former PEACE citizens. We would ask the Hive, if this is the case, to stop playing politics with former PEACE citizens. To stop trying to use their issues to take a swipe at CPU, and to be honest with this Council. If you wish to discuss atrocities we are more than happy to, both those that you falsely accuse us of, as well as the way you refuse to give your citizens a say in even the most basic matters.

Innocent civilians always suffer during war and under occupation. The point of the matter is that war should not have begun at all, members of the Council, they do not even deny their guilt, but affirm it with such words. They threaten this Council if it attempts to do its moral duty in freeing the People of PEACE against the invaders. The People of the Hive have changed their position on this war from that time, the government acted then in the interests of the People to keep relations friendly; our neutrality was not a sign of approval of your actions. The Hive will not get involved in the conflict, we want peace to resume. You again admit that you were aggressors. The ending of the Pact was on ground of your expansionist policies, too often throughout history good people have let evil get too far, are we to stand idly by while aggressors destroy human lives? We have learned our lesson well from World War II, never again will it occur. If war is not aggressive, members of the Council, I do not know what is. However you were treated DOES NOT justify war. They accuse us of dishonesty members of the Council, we speak here of facts, and only facts of their aggression. To claim that we are disinterested is absurd, all of us are looking out for ourselves, but we cannot look out for ourselves at the exclusion of our neighbors.

There is no humanitarian disaster, and the only threat to stability is if we are attacked, or if another faction interferes in the war between CPU and PEACE.

Again you do not deny your guilt. Members of the Council the crisis here is that citizens of PEACE are being occupied by hostile forces, the CyCon have initiated a war that has cost many lives, they have occupied a people who did not seek their help and continue to occupy a people who do not want them there.

CPU affirms the right of all Hive citizens to self rule. However we understand that the Hive is a sovereign state, and as such we have no right to have a say in Hive policy. All refugees and displaced persons may return to their homes. We do not, and have never, targeted civilians. We have no desire to harm anyone but the PEACE military, and all former PEACE citizens have the full rights every CPU citizen has.

You affirm the right of Hive citizens to self rule and not those of PEACE? You affirm the sovereignty of the Hive and not that of PEACE?

We have offered a unification agreement to PEACE, where we would allow all PEACE citizens to become fully-fledged CPU citizens, with all the rights that entails. We would allow their government to join with ours, and become one faction. That was flatly refused. We have tried to begin negotiations, but PEACE have refused to discuss anything with us.

Members of the Council such an agreement is not one of peace, it is an ultimatum: “Join us freely now or we will make you join us.” PEACE does not want to be part of the CyCon, that is why the CyCon have resorted to violence. The Hive government cannot accept any such agreement as legal for it would have been reached under coercive means. If the CyCon truly want peace then let them end hostilities immediately and enter into negotiations supervise by this Council.

There have been no acts of terrorism, and so I would ask that comment be withdrawn. The Planetary Council has no place in a war between two nations. We feel we were wronged by PEACE, and tried diplomacy first. The relationship was unsalvageable, as we have explained before. Our last option was war. We have committed no atrocities, no acts of terrorism, and have targeted nothing but the PEACE military. We have done nothing whatsoever that is banned by international law. Therefore, the Planetary Council has no mandate to intervene - It is there to uphold international law, and no international law has been broken.

This Council should be well informed that the CyCon keep tight controls on information coming out of PEACE bases, the population is resisting they simply do not want us to know about it. War is the last refuge of the incompetent and the first refuge of the scoundrel. To claim you had no choice but to go to war is a lie. You have invaded a sovereign state and you have initiated an act of aggression, both of which as in violation of the UN Charter. International law has been broken members of the Council, but it appears as though the CyCon delegate just conveniently happened to be ignorant of international law.

**Snowflake** · March 1, 2004, 00:15

Well said dear Chairman.

**Octavian X** · March 1, 2004, 00:30

The Hive will restate it's message: we request the return of ALL PEACE bases to the soverign government of the PEACE people, as well as proper repirations from the CPU to PEACE to pay for the obvious pain and suffering that the citizens of the PEACE have gonbe though.

**Kody** · March 1, 2004, 02:34

We agreed with the Hive government before the war that they would remain neutral.

I felt I should clarify something that may have been misunderstood at the time. The Hive stated to the cycon at the start of the war that it wished it remain netural. The majority vote was not to get involved either way at the time. There was no agreement made with the Cycon, simply the Hive stated that it was not interested in getting involved.

**Mart** · March 1, 2004, 10:36

Is the Hive aiming for weakening of the CPU for possible strike ???

**Snowflake** · March 1, 2004, 11:11

The Hive is a peace loving faction. At the time of the CC PEACE war we didn't want to get involved because we believed it was a matter between the two nations and we had hoped they would be able to get the issue resolved between themselves without any outside interference.

However, the situation has changed much since then. The CPU has become a powerful presence in the planet. Thusfar its presence has not appeared to contribute to peace and development of the planet. Rather, the Hive has been forced to come to the realization that a faction might be facing total elimination from the planet. It is not an internal matter between the two factions any more. It has become more and more an issue of regional security and stability. Every faction in the planet knows that if one faction can be eliminated one day, then itself may be the one that gets eliminated on another day. The Hive believes that such aggressiveness and threat toward humanity must be stopped using all means possible.

**Hercules** · March 1, 2004, 15:23

The Peace faction bees highly appreciative of this call from the Hive for a ceasefire and return of Peace bases.

Peace are simply a nation of sea traders, who drink a lot and like nothing better than to sit by firesides with pretty doxies and tankards of xenobeer and xenorum and sing shanties.

The history books will show who was the wronged faction in this war.

I think genocide would be regarded as an atrocity.

Our faction are humbled by the eloquent statements made, with respect to the Peace case, to the council by senior Hive representatives. Proof if it was needed of the excellent schooling that can be obtained in the glorious Hive regime.

**Drogue** · March 1, 2004, 15:54

CPU Response - Part 1

The total respone is over 20,000 characters, so has to be split into two parts

In answer to HongHu:

Originally posted by HongHu
The Hive is a peace loving faction. At the time of the CC PEACE war we didn't want to get involved because we believed it was a matter between the two nations and we had hoped they would be able to get the issue resolved between themselves without any outside interference.

It still will be, in the same we we predicted before, when we are victorious. This was explained to yourself before the war started.

Originally posted by HongHu
However, the situation has changed much since then. The CPU has become a powerful presence in the planet.

And there we get the reason for this action. The Hive feel threatened because two faction shave joined together. This has nothing to do with PEACE, but to do with disagreement over the unification.

Originally posted by HongHu
Thusfar its presence has not appeared to contribute to peace and development of the planet.

There has been no more war since that. If the Hive hadn't reduced the pact with the CyCon, relations would actually be better, in terms of strength of treaties overall.

Originally posted by HongHu
Rather, the Hive has been forced to come to the realization that a faction might be facing total elimination from the planet. It is not an internal matter between the two factions any more.

Two points. One, at the begining I explained that they may well be facing total elimination. Indeed, the thread Googlie started about what happens if they're eliminated was started because of the possibility. I do not see why it is obvious now but not then, when we were debating it.

Two, it is still an internal matter between our two factions. Nothing has changed on that front. The fact they are facign elimination was there from the start, and does not involve another faction in any way.

Originally posted by HongHu
It has become more and more an issue of regional security and stability. Every faction in the planet knows that if one faction can be eliminated one day, then itself may be the one that gets eliminated on another day. The Hive believes that such aggressiveness and threat toward humanity must be stopped using all means possible.

We have explained our reasons for war, and why it is a case solely relating to the CyCon and PEACE. As we said, as long as no-one insults us in that way, taking in game matters into the real life arena, and continually plays us to their own gain, and our loss, we will not wish war again. We were not unprovoked.

********

In answer to Kody:

Originally posted by Kody
I felt I should clarify something that may have been misunderstood at the time. The Hive stated to the cycon at the start of the war that it wished it remain netural. The majority vote was not to get involved either way at the time. There was no agreement made with the Cycon, simply the Hive stated that it was not interested in getting involved.

I suppose it depends on your definition of an agreement. The Hive stated that it wished to remain neutral, that it saw it as a private affair between PEACE and the CyCon, and that it would not aid PEACE (militarily or by giving them military technology). Personally, I would consider that an agreement. However with it being so long ago, I am afraid that I do not have the PMs and chatlogs still.

I am merely questioning why now? Why are the Hive, a faction that has helped us in the war, providing us with infiltration information on PEACE and even offering us credits to help our war effort, now saying that they disagree with it. You were informed of the war many years before we actually declared it. I went too far, in the eyes of many of my faction, in telling your Ambassador about our plans for war long before they were made public, including when it was brought forward two years. At the time, the Hive voiced no concerns whatsoever about our actions, and indeed accepted our explanation for those events. Why have you suddenly changed. I will reiterate. You have changed because since our unification with PUT we have become stronger, and you are trying to find an excuse to weaken us. I would again ask the Hive to stop playing politics with the issues of former PEACE citizens. To the PEACE citizens, I would ask you to realize that the Hive is only using you for their own advantage, while we have made you an honest and still open offer to unify with us and become an equal partner in a Consciousness-PEACE-University Union.

********

In answer to Octavian X:

Originally posted by Octavian X
The Hive will restate it's message: we request the return of ALL PEACE bases to the soverign government of the PEACE people, as well as proper repirations from the CPU to PEACE to pay for the obvious pain and suffering that the citizens of the PEACE have gonbe though.

I will ask again, why now? Why has the Hive changed it's tune from supporting our war with information, to condeming it. I also point out that sine the war started years before the Council existed, it is not a conflict over which it has authority. PEACE did not offer us any favourable agreements when they helped a noose around our necks, strangling our trade and playing us off against other factions, why should we offer them agreements that hurt us now, when they have shown us no suich courtesy? And finally, I would ask the Hive to stop making accusations that are completely unfounded. There is no pain to former PEACE citizens.

********

In answer to foolish_icarus:

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
Arrrrr, worm ****, every single word. By neptune, you borgs do put a lot of effort into yer lying.

Please state where we lied, and what the truth is? Also, of you wish to accuse us of lying, please show evidence of your accusation.

I think that's it. Can I post these? A little overkill maybe, but hey, we are in the right, and if they want to argue, they'd better damn well be prepared to substantiate it

**Drogue** · March 1, 2004, 15:56

CPU Response - Part 2

In answer to Voltaire:

Originally posted by Voltaire
Honorable members of the Council I would like to remind the CPU representative that this Council has as its mandate the United Nations Charter from Old Earth.

Actually, that is incorrect. There are clearly defined atrocities which warrant council actions, such as use of Planet Busting weaponry, nervestapling and the uise of nerve gas. We have committed no such atrocities. There is no charter that the CPU has agreed to that forbids the use of aggression, especially as a last resort. Moreover, this war was started many years before this Council existed, and as such it has no place to intervene in this war. I would ask the Hiverian representative to show me the piece of legislature that we have broken, and the evidence for their accusation, or to withdraw it.

Originally posted by Voltaire
the CPU are avoiding the issue, they do not deny they were the aggressor and nor do they deny that they violated PEACE sovereignty.

Depends what you consider aggression. We explained, before the war, the actions PEACE had taken that led to our decision to engage in war. We used military force first, that is true, but we felt aggrieved at the actions of PEACE.

There are many issues, and we are avoiding none of them. One of those issues is why the Hive supported our war, and has not changed their minds now.

Originally posted by Voltaire
This Council should not stand for such sophistry; you are the aggressors and the occupying forces. The fact that you have built infrastructure does not legitimize you in the eyes of the PEACE populace, you invaded their land, took the lives of their soldiers, and caused destruction to their homes.

You are avoiding the point raised here. The point Comrade Octavian X made was that of the likelihood of a humanitarian disaster. As I said before, that likelihood is less than the it was under PEACE rule, due to the extra facilities we are building. If you make a point, we will address it. To then states a different point entirely in answer to ours seems illogical. We never argued our building of facilities legitimized anything, we argued that it reduced the chance of a humanitarian disaster, which it does.

Originally posted by Voltaire
The democracy of warmonger is no democracy at all.

I disagree. Democracy is rule by the people. Whether in times of war or peace, that does not change. The democracy of a Police State is no democracy, however.

Originally posted by Voltaire
As Chairman of the Human Hive I am deeply offended by the attempts of CPU to distract you from the issue of this meeting, that of their act of aggression, by insulting the peace-loving people of the Human Hive.

As the special envoy of CPU I amk deeply offended that the Human Hive supports our war, then calls a meeting, without giving us time to send an envoy, stating that it must be stopped. I am deeply offended that the Human Hive flings accusations without providing any source or evidence, even when asked. I am deeply offended that the Human Hive tried to use a Council mandate, that does not even include condemning acts of war, that was written after the war was started, to try to argue against a war they helped start, all without a shred of evidence for such atrocities they claim we have committed, or even showing us any international law that we have broken. The whole proposition seems ludicrous.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Our government provides everything for its people; we are a People’s Democratic Dictatorship under the direct control of the People of the Human Hive following the principles of Democratic Centralism. You call us tyrants because we refuse to let those who would harm the people do so, if this is tyranny and what you exemplify democracy I for one cannot say I want your democracy. But this aside, we are willing to look away from the insult and work together for a constructive solution to the problem.

We do not and have never called you tyrants. We have not insulted the Human Hive at all, and we object to you making up such accusations. I merely pointed out that if you wish to write into a Council mandate that war is unacceptable, then why should we not do the same with a denial of self governance? A faction that denies it's people their right to self governance has no place telling another faction that a different group of people have a right to self governance. Furthermore, you claim that our attempts to legitimize our actions (which we were not doing in that instance) with our building of facilities is incorrect, yet you legitimize your authoritarian rule with the same argument, that your government provides what the people need.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Innocent civilians always suffer during war and under occupation.

Source? Evidence?

Originally posted by Voltaire
The point of the matter is that war should not have begun at all, members of the Council, they do not even deny their guilt, but affirm it with such words. They threaten this Council if it attempts to do its moral duty in freeing the People of PEACE against the invaders.

The Council has no such duty legally, and you will pardon me if I do not believe that the Hive dictates their own morals to the Council. The Council is there to keep international law, which has not been broken. Please provide the piece of legislature that we have broken, and the evidence that we have broken it, so that we might show you that it is untrue.

However I do feel the ned to clarify a point earlier. When we said

War will not spread to other factions, presume those other factions do not interfere.

We meant interfere by aiding PEACE in their war effort. If another faction joins PEACE against us, we will defend ourselves, but we will not start an unprovoked war.

Originally posted by Voltaire
The People of the Hive have changed their position on this war from that time, the government acted then in the interests of the People to keep relations friendly; our neutrality was not a sign of approval of your actions.

No, but comments by high ranking Hiverian officials on such things as "we understand why you did it" (paraphrased), and the aiding of our war with military information on PEACE, are signs of approval.

Originally posted by Voltaire
The Hive will not get involved in the conflict, we want peace to resume. You again admit that you were aggressors. The ending of the Pact was on ground of your expansionist policies

Not at all. The ending of the Pact was due to the insults and accusations of PEACE, as well as their attempts to use underhand tactics to gain more from our trading deals, as explained before.

Originally posted by Voltaire
too often throughout history good people have let evil get too far, are we to stand idly by while aggressors destroy human lives? We have learned our lesson well from World War II, never again will it occur.

In World War II there was a mandate for defence. The agreements the British and French had that brought them into the war were legal documents. The Hive has no such agreement with PEACE, and neither does the Council. We have offered PEACE terms that will end the destruction of human life. We do not wish it at all, we wish to preserve it as much as possible. However they have not only refused that, they have refused to negotiate at all. We will happily enter negotiations with PEACE, but our advances as such have been refused.

Originally posted by Voltaire
If war is not aggressive, members of the Council, I do not know what is. However you were treated DOES NOT justify war.

That is an opinion. Without an international body to bring our concerns to, such as this Council, in place at the time, we had no other options. They had treated us unfairly, in our opinion. We had been wronged. Without a body of international law, we had to take it into our own hands.

Originally posted by Voltaire
They accuse us of dishonesty members of the Council, we speak here of facts, and only facts of their aggression.

No, you speak of facts of our atrocities, and of violations of international law. Yet you provide no evidence, no source, and no piece of legislature that we have broken. We have also not accused you of dishonesty. We have accused you of having an ulterior motive for this action, and of playing politics with the lives of former PEACE citizens.

Originally posted by Voltaire
To claim that we are disinterested is absurd, all of us are looking out for ourselves, but we cannot look out for ourselves at the exclusion of our neighbors.

You did it quite well for years before, why change now? You have no legitimate legal reason to be involved at all.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Again you do not deny your guilt. Members of the Council the crisis here is that citizens of PEACE are being occupied by hostile forces, the CyCon have initiated a war that has cost many lives, they have occupied a people who did not seek their help and continue to occupy a people who do not want them there.

I would disagree that there is a crisis. As my post says, there is no humanitarian disaster, and the people are not being constrained, prejudiced against, or in any way discriminated against. They are CPU citizens.

Again, you claim that we occupy a people that did not seek our help, yet you do the same. Your people have not asked to be ruled, they are ruled by a Police State. Former PEACE citizens have self governance. They vote for our leaders, as we live in a democracy. They have more say in their own lives, in how their bases are run, than Hive citizens do. So to claim that we forcing our rule open them is a lot less true than it is for any Hive base.

Originally posted by Voltaire
You affirm the right of Hive citizens to self rule and not those of PEACE? You affirm the sovereignty of the Hive and not that of PEACE?

Former PEACE citizens have self rule. They have a democracy, and they vote for their leaders. That is self rule. And we affirm the sovereignty of all factions. However former PEACE bases are now CPU bases, and come under our sovereignty. We also have sovereign rule over our forces, and therefore believe that it is not up to the Council whether these forces are used.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Members of the Council such an agreement is not one of peace, it is an ultimatum: “Join us freely now or we will make you join us.” PEACE does not want to be part of the CyCon, that is why the CyCon have resorted to violence. The Hive government cannot accept any such agreement as legal for it would have been reached under coercive means. If the CyCon truly want peace then let them end hostilities immediately and enter into negotiations supervise by this Council.

PEACE government does not wish to be part of CPU. PEACE citizens have not spoken. We wished, and still wish, to start negotiations with PEACE. They have refused to negotiate with us.

Originally posted by Voltaire
This Council should be well informed that the CyCon keep tight controls on information coming out of PEACE bases

That is both unsubstantiated, unsupported, and untrue. Please provide evidence for such wild allegations.

Originally posted by Voltaire
War is the last refuge of the incompetent and the first refuge of the scoundrel.

War is the last refuge for everyone. When all else has failed, it is what you are left with. We did not want war, but the relationship broke down, for reasons we have said before, and it was the only logical option left to us. Why have pity for a faction that has repeatedly tried to do us over, to gain at our expense? If they had shown us an ounce of compassion, we would not have acted as we did.

When PEACE refuse to negotiate, what option do we have but to continue to press our war?

Originally posted by Voltaire
To claim you had no choice but to go to war is a lie. You have invaded a sovereign state and you have initiated an act of aggression, both of which as in violation of the UN Charter.

Neither of which have broken any agreement we have signed. Neither of which are against international law. Neither of which are classed as atrocities, acts of terrorism, or violations of international law, as you have tried to claim. Please stated the evidence and the legislature, for these accusations, or withdraw them.

Originally posted by Voltaire
International law has been broken members of the Council, but it appears as though the CyCon delegate just conveniently happened to be ignorant of international law.

International law has not been broken. Wild and unsubstantiated allegations have been thrown at CPU, without evidence, legislature or even a source to back it up. It seems that the Hive is trying to write international law as it sees fit, without providing any legislature for such an action. The UN Charter is not the mandate for the Council. Certain factions that have long since disbanded tried to make it as such. However atrocities are well defined, and are illegal, under international law, but are all that is illegal. The UN Charter is not a legal document on Chiron. There is not even the option to vote for it to be as such in the Council.

Moreover, any such Charter, were it ratified, would only relate to actions taken after it's signing. This war started before there was a Planetary Council, and so actions before then would not be bound by the same rules. However they is, and has never, been a UN Charter that has been ratified on Chiron as international law. International law forbids atrocities only. The bottom line is that there is no law against war, and against aggression. The Hive has made many unsubstantiated allegations to terrorism, atrocities and violations of international law. We have not committed any of these. We admit to going to war, with the Hive's aid at the time, and for reasons that have been presented to the Hive government. Even without those, what we did was not illegal. War is not banned by international law.

We ask the Hive to look at the history of cooperation we have had until just recently, and to help rekindle that. We are puzzled and hurt by their apparent turn against us, and ask that they try to work with us rather than throw accusations and make demands themselves. We should urge the Hive leadership not to buy in to unsubstantiated claims.

To summarise:

There is no ratified UN Charter for this mission, that was the Peacekeepers goal, but they disbanded shortly after planetfall. The only international law that can be taken for granted without being ratified by all factions is the prohibition of atrocities. CPU, nor any former constituent part, has ever committed such an atrocity. War is not banned by any law or treaty. To remove an option as such, would be like removing the option to run a Police State. Both are morally questionable, depending on your morals, both can be argued against. However both can be logical tools, and as such, there is no law banning either. No action taken by CPU, or the previous CyCon government, has been against international law, or any treaty we have signed. If you wish to accuse us, as you seem to have, of acts of terrorism, and atrocities, we are happy to stand trial, and be acquitted for such. If you wish to accuse us of declaring war, then we admit it, but that is not illegal. Moreover, we have explained why we did it, and in helping us start the war, I would suggest that implies you did not object at the time, and only object now due to the strength of CPU since it’s unification. It is not a case of the Hive standing up for PEACE, it is a case of them standing against CPU, because they feel threatened. That is why I call to the Human Hive to stop playing politics with the lives and welfare of former PEACE citizens, and talk to us about the real issues to them. I would also call upon them to show us the evidence for their claims of atrocities, of breaking international law, or to withdraw those claims.

Announcement

Hiverian Planetary Council Motion: Call of Cease Fire

Hiverian Planetary Council Motion: Call of Cease Fire

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