The SMAXDG Pbem game mechanics

[Method]

Originally posted by Maniac
As it's PBEM, does that mean that the turn is only sent to the "Provost/Chairman/Captain/Prime Function" of the faction in question, or is the file attached in a thread, so everyone of the team, knowing the correct password, can access the turn and suggest things for when the Leader comes on line and can play the turn?

i was thinking each team could make an email account at, say, hotmail and give all its members the password. that way you don't have to wait for the >leader< to post the save in a thread, just the team before you to send it.

[Jamski]

It's probably best if the save is always posted on 'poly so everyone know's where the game is. Too many people will be involved to go chasing the save around the world. If each team has a password, then its "safe" enough.

-Jam

[Hercules]

As it's PBEM, does that mean that the turn is only sent to the "Provost/Chairman/Captain/Prime Function" of the faction in question, or is the file attached in a thread, so everyone of the team, knowing the correct password, can access the turn and suggest things for when the Leader comes on line and can play the turn?

As War of Art and TKG suggest, I think this is the most practical way to progress the game, plus it has the advantage of letting everyone know where the turn is.

These are the mechanics I wished to have discussion, elaboration and agreement on so newcomers and us know the rules.

[Hercules]

Ok let's look at this scenario. In August 2003, ArtCake likes the idea of this ACDG and joins the Hive/Drone faction. Womaniac hears about the game on CGN and joins the Green Pirates. War on Static Flames joins the University cyborgs.

After they receive turn MY 2260 they each email each other to discuss options and of course exchange passwords. War on static Flames in reality is ArtCake on a different email system and well, Womaniac is ArtCake also on a different system.

[Hercules]

I believe the team leader has to approve all attempts to join the team. that way people from other teams are kept out.

What's to stop a player emailing the turn to a rival faction, together with the password.

In light of the example given above is there a more secure way.

Maybe there isn't and it all depends on player's honesty and RP mindedness

[Maniac]

Maybe there isn't and it all depends on player's honesty and RP mindedness

I hope that should be sufficient.

[Hercules]

Well, as long as each team has more than one person who can play the turn (at the PTW DG each team has three, but that may prove too many here), that shouldn't be a problem too often.

This is the exactly the sort of detail we need to discuss.

[Jamski]

We'll have to accept the fact that the saves won't be completly secret - this is a democracy game, and democracy depends on freedom of information. We would know if another faction played our save though I personally would trust the ither factions not to look at the save - even if they did somehow get the password.

-Jam

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by Hercules
Ok let's look at this scenario. In August 2003, ArtCake likes the idea of this ACDG and joins the Hive/Drone faction. Womaniac hears about the game on CGN and joins the Green Pirates. War on Static Flames joins the University cyborgs.

After they receive turn MY 2260 they each email each other to discuss options and of course exchange passwords. War on static Flames in reality is ArtCake on a different email system and well, Womaniac is ArtCake also on a different system.

The scenario you describe here would: a) be very much against 'Poly rules (no DLs allowed), b) be highly objectonable to any player who has a sense of honour rather than just the desire to win.

[Jamski]

I just notziced how funny the name "Womaniac" is.
Woman + Maniac = Womaniac. And ArtCake is one of those words that makes me giggle uncontrollably (I'm at work too - everytime I read it I start again)

-Jam

[FlameFlash]

Re: The SMAXDG Pbem game mechanics

Originally posted by Hercules
I know it is still early days, but I thought it would be useful to give old and new participants a thread to discuss how things would operate in a SMAXDG pbem game. So that new participants have an idea of what's involved from lurking to active playing.

For example:
Teams and turns

Frequency of turn.

There should be a decided day turns are played by each faction... say one certain day every two weeks?

Team discussion forums: how they might operate for the likely human factions.

The non-essential chatting and RPing could be done in just the main SMAC-DG thread, but perhaps as MarkG how easy it would be to have sub threads for each of the played factions?

Who posts the actual turn? Commissioner? President, Admiral, Dictator.

How about the ambasador... the leader could play the turn, send it to the ambassador of the next faction in turn order, and the ambassador could either post it or e-mail it to the leader.

IRC or email or PM or poly chat

email and PM are my votes, only because I always have trouble connecting IRC and poly chat is just too open IMHO.

Openness or secrecy in discussion and policy making

Here's where somebody's idea about the democratic factions being semi-open on their polices and the non-democratic nations maybe having a Yahoo e-mail list would be a good idea. Sure there go the post count pluses... but it'd be nice to prove DG games aren't just a post count booster.

RPing

Just as it has been before, IMHO.

Spying/espionage: legitimate tactics? rules

Misinformation is key. The democratic nations should be much easier spied upon, but perhaps there just be a news service that the other factions would be honest and only read/subscribe to while leaving the others alone... in fact, in that way Yang's "Information Ministry" could also be available on 'poly.

Areas of common interest.

new members / recruitment

I don't think any faction should actively recruit... if they come, they come. Faction hopping (though not excessive faction hopping) should be allowed as well... obviously if you leave the Hive you won't be welcomed back, however.

reporting on game / team progress?/ CNN

I like the CNN idea, personally... have one main world news service while this would be reported to by each of the Information Ministers...

Rec. Commons we know and love. (Visit at your peril)

Might as well just keep the current one running and continue building on top of it. Perhaps there'd be something like the Internet that allows everybody to go to it regardless of faction or it's established in some no-man's land... or every faction hosts it... in an alternating pattern, so that while visiting the Rec. Commons with Yang hosting you need to watch what you say a little more

General forum/market place/ merchants exchange

A merchants exchange/market place forum could just be the Rec. Commons since the different marketing ministers would need to chat when credit loans and trade pacts and such occur.

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Drogue
since you shouldn't have diplomacy until you've met in game.

There's something I most certainly agree on... so prior to all the player factions meeting the Rec Commons would either need to be seperate for each faction or us not RP game news there. (And for that matter, the Information Ministries of the different factions wouldn't have much to do.)

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by War of Art
In a normal PBEM, Drogue, you start with the com frequencies of the other human factions, or am I mistaken? SO we could have diplomacy from the start

-Jam

Should probably just go with the standard SMAX PBEM rules as far as those things are concerned... referencing the SMAX PBEM rules on other matters might be wise as well.

Somebody have them handy to post?

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Maniac
As it's PBEM, does that mean that the turn is only sent to the "Provost/Chairman/Captain/Prime Function" of the faction in question, or is the file attached in a thread, so everyone of the team, knowing the correct password, can access the turn and suggest things for when the Leader comes on line and can play the turn?

That I like

* I was thinking, to encourage RPG, that an extra victory possibility could be to convince/force all other human factions to adopt your favourite SE choice. For example for the Hive Police State (or Planned if the Hive players want to pretend the Hive to be democratic & Marxist), the University Knowledge, the Pirates Power, and the Consciousness Cybernetic (or Planned if the prerequisite tech for Cybernetic isn't reached yet?).

Don't like that.

** This wouldn't force conquerors to destroy all human opposition. Instead they could accept submissiveness (together with for example other conditions such as having to give all your new tech to the conqueror, or having to pay the overlord 100 ec each turn), and the conquerors wouldn't have to destroy every single human base to achieve victory. Also it would leave some hope/fun for the attacked faction. I was also thinking, to prevent all submissives to break the "vassalage" once the conqueror/overlord's armies are mostly gone, or to prevent them breaking the vassalage one turn before the overlord achieves victory, that the vassalage is only broken if the overlord agrees to break it, or if the overlord's faction itself is destroyed. In other words, the vassal simply declaring war on the ex-conqueror wouldn't suffice: the ex-overlord could still achieve victory, and the ex-vassal would not be able to achieve any victory itself before both parties break the agreement.
This achieves a good balance IMHO. A vassalage isn't just a paper agreement, giving it some value to the overlord. And it doesn't make the situation hopeless or completely without fun for the vassal: the faction could conspire together with other human factions to attack the overlord on a moment of weakness, and force him to break the vassalage.

That I like...

TKG:
i was thinking each team could make an email account at, say, hotmail and give all its members the password. that way you don't have to wait for the >leader< to post the save in a thread, just the team before you to send it.

Not fond of that... but just because I hate hotmail... I suppose if we do something like this I'd prefer hotmail or something else I can check with my standard e-mail program rather than log-in to a website.

WoA:
It's probably best if the save is always posted on 'poly so everyone know's where the game is. Too many people will be involved to go chasing the save around the world. If each team has a password, then its "safe" enough.

-Jam

I like this as well, though e-mailing it to the faction hotmail address would be nice as well. Unless there'd be a turn tracking thread like standard PBEM games... perhaps as MarkG about how many turn attachments are allowed... it'd be nice to have all of them available in one thread and at the end of the game post passwords just for the fun of it, but that's something we can consider later.

Hercules:

Maybe there isn't and it all depends on player's honesty and RP mindedness

If we really have to worry about that, it's not going to be any fun for any of us anyway. We've got to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and if information that shouldn't be known is posted by somebody about another faction, the fellow faction members that spot it should report it to the hurt faction and just ban the player from the game.

Cheating in this kind of thing should not be tolerated, but likewise unless we're all honest there's no way to keep it in check.

WoA:
I just notziced how funny the name "Womaniac" is.
Woman + Maniac = Womaniac. And ArtCake is one of those words that makes me giggle uncontrollably (I'm at work too - everytime I read it I start again)

-Jam

mmmm.... ArtCake... mmm....

[Micha]

Originally posted by Hercules
it all depends on player's honesty and RP mindedness

exactly.

If someone e-mails you internal information of another section you can report him. If the spy only spies for his own and doesn´t let anybody know about it, he has no fun but noone else is affected.

I don´t see any problem with that!