The Civ V AI

[Ming]

Believe me when I agree... the game has to improve/grow up

[Golgamesh]

AI got its knickers in a right twist. A "friendly" empire wanted open borders. Curiously I couldn't accept, but when I fiddled around adding and subtracting stuff to the trade screen eventually I could accept - though I did wonder that the message above propose/accept was "What would it take to end ...". Sure enough when my turn came I was at war with the friendly empire. The war declared message came next turn!

[Jiks]

Hate to say it but the "denounce cascade" happens on Prince, too. If you sign a Friendship Agreement with anyone, ever and another AI denounces you they all do as "a friend has denounced you", even if they have not yet.

Someone else here ( sorry can't recall who or I'd credit) suggested this was the case and my own tests seem to confirm that it is being Friends that royally screws up the Diplomacy AI.

[mkorin]

How about the endless and meaningless war.. I attacked Germany about 100 turns ago to kick him off my continent. He has not attacked me at all nor have I gone across the pond, but he'll only talk peace if I buy him off. I am the victor here, he's doing nothing, but just keeps a worthless war going.

Mike

[Quick]

Once we isolate where the change is (it isn't obvious in the Civ5HandicapInfo xml), we can mod it out. But it's also possible that at higher difficulties the AI figures they just don't NEED you and your potential trade items because their happiness bonuses etc. make them independent ... until you grind them into the bloody ground.

I can foresee someone modding the handicapinfo file so that an easy difficulty has immortal-like AI bonuses in it, just to see if AIs still do the hostility dance, in case it IS linked to diff. level.

Re your 'lazy' and 'crappy' comments, you and I both know that we are the gamma testers; this game still has to grow up.

I am not sure that it is something that can be modded. I havent yet restarted a game due to a bad start location. I have also been playing on levels 2 and 3. (I forget what they are called. Prince is 4.) It appears that the AI operates differently when I am very much number one than when I am not.

My current game was a bad start location. I am usually only number 2 in soldiers and I am number 4 in tech. The two I am war at are weaker then I am. I am also slowley taking them out. But they keep offering even up cease fire instead of offering me everthing for peace like when I am number one in soldiers and tech.

[mkorin]

Speaking of start locations, how about the AI placement of cities. Two spots away from the other city. There should be no way that these cities can grow and/or be productive, yet they always seem to grow huge and crank out units. I end up razing 1/2 of the AIs cities.

Mike

[mkorin]

My current game, I just liberated an AI capital thinking I would have undying loyalty. He was completely out of the game. Wait, 10 turns later for no reason, he denounced me.

Mike

[Ming]

My current game, I just liberated an AI capital thinking I would have undying loyalty. He was completely out of the game. Wait, 10 turns later for no reason, he denounced me.

Mike

10 turns later... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha The diplomacy is just sooooooooooooo screwed up.

[mkorin]

Ming, good evil laugh, fitting for condemning Flash Gordon to death, speaking of death the AI that I rescued has now DOW'd me for no reason. I'll never have pity again.

Mike

[Ming]

While we are all laughing at the screwed up diplomacy... how much different is it really than Civ IV... when your "good Buddy" and bretheren of the faith attacks you instead of the guy next door who is supposedly his worst enemy

[Proteus_MST]

While we are all laughing at the screwed up diplomacy... how much different is it really than Civ IV... when your "good Buddy" and bretheren of the faith attacks you instead of the guy next door who is supposedly his worst enemy

I have to say that in Civ IV such things happened much more seldom to me than in Civ V.
To me it seems like the Civ V AI is much more opportunistic

[mkorin]

I've said from the beginning, I like V better than IV. If they every fix the bugs, it will be a good game. Diplomacy is probably the worst bug.

[Quick]

My current game, I just liberated an AI capital thinking I would have undying loyalty. He was completely out of the game. Wait, 10 turns later for no reason, he denounced me.

Mike

I did that once also in my first game. I haven't done it since. It was just one of many lessons from that game.

[Boracks]

Diplomacy wise, best game I played was SMAC. Actually had some decent diplomatic interaction and results. Diplomacy just doesn't exist in Civ V. Yet.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

key word there is *electronic arts* my friend.... EA.