What Advantages Has STEAM Brought to 2K, Firaxis and the Civilization Franchise?

[Nikolai]

Aside from first time activation and for patching and MP, you will never have to be online again.

[quinalla]

Yeah, you only have to be online for the initial activation, for multiplayer and if you want to patch, otherwise you can play single player offline forever after that.

And steam does have benefits for the customer. For example, I have all these games linked to my steam account. When I build a new PC I can either redownload them from steam onto the new PC (no searching for CDs/DVDs & codes) or even back them up to my server or CD/DVD before taking done the old PC and reload them from that. As others mentioned, I can install these games on any PC (or Mac if it is Mac compatible, another benefit for a few folks), the DRM just keeps me from playing more than one "copy" at a time if I am online. As far as DRMs go, Steam's is pretty decent as it makes things pretty easy for the consumer, the only downside is you can't resell games once you link them to your steam account and you do have to run steam at least occasionally. I can see what my friends are up to and easily connect with them to play multiplayer or just ask questions if I get stuck or chat. I have access to a bunch of indie games in one place, games that I can't get in any brick & mortar store, this is actually helping the PC gaming market as folks that could never successfully distribute a game before now can do so. Yes, there are other programs out there like Steam, but Steam is by far the most popular. The achievement tracking is fun too. They also have good sales in general and also good game bundle deals.

For the gaming company, I think the benefits have been made pretty clear by others in this thread.

However, I do understand that there are folks out there who don't care about the any of these benefits and don't want to have to run Steam. Unfortunately, you don't have that option if you want to play Civ5. I do hope that most folks can get past the annoyance and hopefully find that some of the benefits of Steam are useful to them too.

[Modo44]

Steam is FREE.

That part is a stretch IMO. Steam might not be a separate invoice entry, but you sure end up paying for it, as with any DRM added to a game. (By the way, thanks for clarifying the "no DRM inside the actual game" bit. It's an important and obvious point, yet I didn't realize it until just now.)

[Asher]

You are still miss the point. I am not talking about if Steam is better than all those communication platform. I just do not like the fact that it is combined with DRM that requires to run it each time. And that you do not have option not to install it. It does not even matter if it is good or bad. The fact is that there are other alternative to approach this which are better for customer. Note I am saying approach, I do not want to come into pointless comparison of which service is better.

Why do you view Steam simply as DRM? It's an online service, but you can play games in offline mode without it. Have you tried that?

Standard is good, monopolies is bad. I would rather have standard but with option to use any provider or not to use it at all. Things like e-mail are standard, but providers are not.

Fortunately, Steam is a standard and not a monopoly.

The e-mail analogy is insultingly disingenuous. Civ5 is not an open internet standard, it's a proprietary game. It uses Steam, it uses a dozen other middleware libraries as required standards (in addition to Steam for MP support) and I do not see you complaining about that either. And no, they're not monopolies either.

I am not wining, I would actually chose Steam over CD (the one that you have to insert into drive to play) anyway. But it does not mean that things can not be improved or that I do not understand people who would chose otherwise. Steam is not the best approach there is, there are better approaches for customer.

No, there's not. Name one? All of the programs you've listed do not come close to competing with Steam. And Impulse/D2d doesn't offer matchmaking support, friends lists, multiplayer middleware, etc.

So is 2K, so is D2D, so is Stardoc, so is gazillion other less restrictive options...

No, this is not true. 2K does not have a reliable autoupdate service that can scale to the size of Civ5, I'm not sure if Direct2Drive does because I boycott the service based off its embarrassingly stupid name, and Impulse has very slow download speeds on a good day and every game I've patched with it (Sins, GC2, Dragon Age: Origins0 has had "unexpected errors" in the patch process and required a full redownload. Amateur hour.

Sorry I misspelled (I was sure that they were spelling like that). I meant Impulse Reactor.

Impulse Reactor is already a failure, a few months into it. Is any real game using it?

Why do you think that is, if the terms of service are so attractive (free, only requirement is to make it non-exclusively available on Impulse?)

The actual DRM is Impulse Reactor is just a simple "encrypt game object until the user authenticates" system. It's effectively useless, because the pirated versions of the game simply distribute the unencrypted version. This is why no one uses it.

[Asher]

That part is a stretch IMO. Steam might not be a separate invoice entry, but you sure end up paying for it, as with any DRM added to a game. (By the way, thanks for clarifying the "no DRM inside the actual game" bit. It's an important and obvious point, yet I didn't realize it until just now.)

It's not a stretch. Steam makes their money by taking a cut of the Steam game sales and DLC, just like brick and mortar stores would. It costs the developer nothing, it costs the user nothing.

[Asher]

You don't know anyone who uses GameSpy? Gee, like does anyone at Apolyton play Civ4?

No, I've never played Civ4 online because it's not a very good MP game. The people who have time to play Civ games online, I can't even imagine how much free time they must have...

[Asher]

Sad, I was looking forward to playing Civ V but I guess I am just going to have to wait for half-way decent pirated copy to avoid all this nonsense.

On-line activation is one thing but having to maintain a connection for an entire, SP, game due to only being able to purchase an incomplete install is way too high a price for me to pay.

Why the hell does everyone start *****ing and moaning without doing the most basic research? It's maddening.

[Modo44]

It's not a stretch. Steam makes their money by taking a cut of the Steam game sales and DLC, just like brick and mortar stores would. It costs the developer nothing, it costs the user nothing.

Stores aren't free, only browsing is. You buy anything, you pay the shop the margin. Same as Steam, as you correctly pointed out. So no, it's not free for the actual user, just for the ones browsing.

[Asher]

I was clearly referring to "free" in the realistic case -- the user doesn't pay anything more or less than they would have without Steam. It adds no additional cost, but it provides many added benefits.

[MxM]

Why do you view Steam simply as DRM? It's an online service, but you can play games in offline mode without it. Have you tried that?

And then it would indeed be just a DRM, if I do that. And even if I turn it off, the whole steam still will be loaded (takes time to load, takes about 3% of PC memory, etc) and just sit there.

Fortunately, Steam is a standard and not a monopoly.

I am not so sure. It already has monopoly power and you can see it in case of Civ V - no other way to play it but through Steam. There will be more and more games like that. Granted, it is still not full monopoly as it was in case of AT&T in its time...

The e-mail analogy is insultingly disingenuous. Civ5 is not an open internet standard, it's a proprietary game.

So is Outlook - propitiatory program, but uses open standard.

No, there's not. Name one? All of the programs you've listed do not come close to competing with Steam.

Thus conforming that Steam is nearly monopoly.

And Impulse/D2d doesn't offer matchmaking support, friends lists, multiplayer middleware, etc.

I am talking about DRM here. There are better ways to do it. For matchmaking support they could use whatever, Gamespy arcade or build in system - I do not care. It does not need to be bundled with DRM.

No, this is not true. 2K does not have a reliable autoupdate service that can scale to the size of Civ5,

We are talking about infrostructure, i.e. servers. The "auto" us irrelevant. You could have dine it within game - you do not need 3rd party software constantly running for that. The standard libraries for update exist and could have been added to the game directly. Or, I give you another example - Impulse.

I'm not sure if Direct2Drive does because I boycott the service based off its embarrassingly stupid name,

You realize how stupid it sounds, right? But it has nothing to do with our discussion, so, whatever...

and Impulse has very slow download speeds on a good day and every game I've patched with it (Sins, GC2, Dragon Age: Origins0 has had "unexpected errors" in the patch process and required a full redownload. Amateur hour.

Strange. I have completely opposite experience - it is faster than Steam, and more consistent. May be it depends on provider? I have Verizon/FIOS.

Impulse Reactor is already a failure, a few months into it. Is any real game using it?

Impulse Reactor and Goo Game List

Why do you think that is, if the terms of service are so attractive (free, only requirement is to make it non-exclusively available on Impulse?)

Because Steam has near monopoly power.

The actual DRM is Impulse Reactor is just a simple "encrypt game object until the user authenticates" system. It's effectively useless, because the pirated versions of the game simply distribute the unencrypted version. This is why no one uses it.

It is 1) More user friendly and 2) Any game of interest on Steam is got pirated too. If I wanted to pirate there would be NO difference where game is released. As I said, piracy is "perceived" benefit of STEAM - there is no actual benefit. Steam DRM or any kind of stronger than Impulse Reactor DRM creates only problem for the paying customer, not for people who pirate game.

[Modo44]

I was clearly referring to "free" in the realistic case -- the user doesn't pay anything more or less than they would have without Steam. It adds no additional cost, but it provides many added benefits.

Yeah, the Steam cut (margin) is quite obviously zero. No additional cost whatsoever. [/sarcasm]

[Asher]

Yeah, the Steam cut (margin) is quite obviously zero. No additional cost whatsoever. [/sarcasm]

I do not know why you are having difficulties comprehending. The Steam cut has no additional cost compared to other methods. In fact, I've heard that Steam's cut is lower than B&M cuts.

[Asher]

And then it would indeed be just a DRM, if I do that. And even if I turn it off, the whole steam still will be loaded (takes time to load, takes about 3% of PC memory, etc) and just sit there.

3% of PC memory. That's outrageous. Pillage Firaxis' offices at once.

My Windows 7 system peaks at 39% RAM usage when playing Civ5 on standard maps...

I am not so sure. It already has monopoly power and you can see it in case of Civ V - no other way to play it but through Steam. There will be more and more games like that. Granted, it is still not full monopoly as it was in case of AT&T in its time...

You are making me cry. A few posts ago you were raving about how many awesome options gamers have, then you go and cry about Steam being a monopoly. So which one is it?

Having a vendor choose one middleware doesn't make it a monopoly. Havok doesn't have a monopoly on physics middleware just because Halo uses it (FORCES you to use it ).

So is Outlook - propitiatory program, but uses open standard.

Exchange is not an open standard.

Thus conforming that Steam is nearly monopoly.

You're quite right -- success in the marketplace, regardless of options of choice for consumers -- is what defines a monopoly.

I am talking about DRM here. There are better ways to do it. For matchmaking support they could use whatever, Gamespy arcade or build in system - I do not care. It does not need to be bundled with DRM.

Civ5 would come with DRM with or without Steam, just like Civ4 did. At least with Civ5 I do not need to break the law by getting a no-CD crack just to play my game without a disc in the system...like I had to with Civ4 (pre 3.19).

We are talking about infrostructure, i.e. servers. The "auto" us irrelevant. You could have dine it within game - you do not need 3rd party software constantly running for that. The standard libraries for update exist and could have been added to the game directly. Or, I give you another example - Impulse.

2K does not have a system in place that could provide easy updates to all of the gamers using 2K games. If you keep asserting this, you need to back it up with proof -- I've never heard of it.

Which "standard libraries" exist? Could you link to them?

Strange. I have completely opposite experience - it is faster than Steam, and more consistent. May be it depends on provider? I have Verizon/FIOS.

It shouldn't be shocking. Impulse is a small-time operation. Steam has many data centres in many regions that are bound to be geographically closer to me than Impulse's single datacentre somewhere in the US.

Because Steam has near monopoly power.

Please look up "monopoly" before continuing to trot this argument out.

It is 1) More user friendly

Based on WHAT? I've never used a game that used it (and I play a lot of games), but the screenshots I've seen look fairly bland and low-budget...

Any game of interest on Steam is got pirated too. If I wanted to pirate there would be NO difference where game is released. As I said, piracy is "perceived" benefit of STEAM - there is no actual benefit. Steam DRM or any kind of stronger than Impulse Reactor DRM creates only problem for the paying customer, not for people who pirate game.

Civ5 is pirated?

[Asher]

Here's the comprehensive list of games that use the obviously-awesome Impulse Reactor:

Sol Survivor (what?)
Elemental: War of Magic (what?)
Bob Came in Pieces (what?)
Sacraboar (what?)
DroplitZ (what?)
Demigod (what?)

Considering it is 100% free, with the only catch for using it means you must make the game non-exclusively available on Impulse...to me that means game developers have evaluated it and determined it to be ****.

[MxM]

Here's the comprehensive list of games that use the obviously-awesome Impulse Reactor:

Sol Survivor (what?)
Elemental: War of Magic (what?)
Bob Came in Pieces (what?)
Sacraboar (what?)
DroplitZ (what?)
Demigod (what?)

Considering it is 100% free, with the only catch for using it means you must make the game non-exclusively available on Impulse...to me that means game developers have evaluated it and determined it to be ****.

You have missed the goo part, which is also superior protection in user friendliness to STEAM.