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  • For what it's worth, yes, I do think that C4 is a better game, and likely will always be the better MP game unless Firaxis works on it solidly for about a year.
    You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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    • It's a fundamentally flawed game. As I said, they never addressed the flaws that were there from day 1, and as they continually simplified the game those flaws became more important because they are the core of the game. Much easier to just reskin the game and take features out and then claim it's a form of new features than it is to actually add stuff into the game and deal with gameplay balance. Good companies like Blizzard do the latter, small, insignificant companies like Firaxis do the former.

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      • You play Starcraft, Drixnak?

        And I played the demo of Civ... umm... why does nothing happen? I mean it's only 100 turns but still that takes you into the AD years yet nothing happens. I played a full 100 turns and nothing happened but some barbarians tried to attack one of my cities.
        "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
        "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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        • @OP:
          HI I AM A TROLL I AM TROLLING PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE FIREWALL HE IS JUST GETTING A RISE OUT OF YOU
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          :(){ :|:& };:

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          • I actually didn't like Starcraft Al because it only has like 2 resources so it seemed kind of simple. I liked AOC the most due to its gameplay mechanics and the fact that it had 4 resources in addition to other things. I'd be far more willing to play SC2 though than I ever would Civ5. Also, yes, there is a seriously lack of action in this game. The game is just boring. How can't it be when they simplified it down to this point? You can only take so much out of the game before there's nothing left. Changing to hex tiles isn't an addition to the game, in fact I didn't even notice it and I question why it wasn't done long before now because it seems so natural. Also, the new battle system is poorly implemented. Getting rid of mindless stacked combat was a good idea, but you're supposed to follow it up with something better.

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            • Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
              Welcome to Apolyton.
              Rather enjoying it. Discussions like this happen in my own forum regularly (albeit with less attacks of other players), but not in a main forum.

              Originally posted by Fidel View Post
              Well, I see two old posters who are credited as beta testers, Nikolai and Yin. Now that the game is out, please do tell whether you actually enjoy playing its final version?
              This was the first Civ ever I thought sucked big time. Graphics are a step back, granted, diplomacy is a joke (even more than in the previous incarnation). 1UP is good. But the game is BORING. Nothing happens for ages. No one attacks me, we are just pushing a couple of units around, waiting for something to be built. And nothing ever is. I have no idea what is going on. The level is Prince, right out of the box, and I was not even trying to get a grasp on what was going on...
              Epic fail, IMHO.
              By the way, a special raspberry award goes to the 'streamlined interface'. So much for the jabs at Soren and Civ4. He did a MUCH better job even in vanilla version. This is worse than Civ3. The worst Civ in the series so far.
              Count myself in that as well.

              Honestly, this is the first civ that I have enjoyed playing for anything more than modding. I honestly did not like Civ4. I liked the platform that it provided me, but that is all. With Civ5, again, I am excited about the platform... But I'm enjoying the game as well.

              I do not agree that graphics are a step back. Actually, I think it's quite a step forward; The game looks better IMO.

              Diplomacy... Yeah. Quite a few of the testers will agree to that, and there are active discussions. It will be improved.

              As for nothing happening, I'm of the opinion that the default settings have too few civs. For a huge earth map, I use 20 civs. Not 14. FAR more dynamic.

              On the interface: What exactly do you dislike? On the whole, I prefer it to Civ4. No, it doesn't present as much info at any one time... But that's the whole point of it being streamlined. For the most part, that info is still perfectly accessible.

              Originally posted by DriXnaK View Post
              Honestly, how can someone have fun playing against an AI? Ok, maybe it was cool when I was like 12 years old, but after that? It will never cease to amuse me to see how grown men enjoy wasting their time playing against something that can't fight back. Also, I love how the idiots on here always say someone can't adapt to a game if they don't like it, completely throwing away the fact that I find the game to be easy.

              I'll say it again, the game sucks. It has taken most the options out of the game and forced everyone onto a linear path on the same level. When a game forces equalization on players it's because it's trying to make up for fundamental flaws in the game, and those flaws have been there since Civ1. They became more pronounced over the years as they took more and more out of the game in their efforts to simplify it. When you take features and possibilities out of the game then you are left with only the core game, and if that core game has fundamental flaws in it then you see what we have here. I guess some people just aren't born that intelligent.
              No, myself and others have criticized you for failing to adapt simply because you compare it to the 'glory days' of games you grew up with. I don't care if you dislike it, it is your attitude that irks me.

              As an experiment, try making a cogent, non-insulting list of those points you dislike about the game. You may even find some (or many) of us agree, at least on specific points. It is also far more likely to have any kind of result than what you are doing.

              Originally posted by Fidel View Post
              I tried again. This time it was better.
              Still, I reckon the most fundamental difference in the default settings is the vastness of the maps and the slow tempo of filling them out. I feel that the number of civs and minor states should be at least +50% on any setting to have any pressure on borders. I played standard and by 400BC none of us had more than two cities, with vast unclaimed lands inbetween. This is why the 'feel' of previous civs is absent, there is no landgrab and no incentive to go to war over some land. While this was surely exaggerated in some of previous iterations, current default settings are creating 'empty' worlds. This was on King.
              So I guess 9 civs on small and 12 on standard might do.
              Anyway, thank you for your polite reply. Please tell the guys in Firaxis that having wants/gives resource screen is a must (ala BTS).
              Again, I completely agree. It's one of the things I dislike about it... But as a modder, I don't let that bother me. I can always change it.

              Originally posted by Atomation View Post
              To say that civ has a vast majority single-player base is like saying that china has mostly chinese people in its borders. The majority of the player base is a biproduct of the game design, not vice versa. IF the game had better multiplayer support, it would be a very strong multiplayer game, and frankly the multiplayer gaming community in general is extremely large and devotes much more time to gaming than single player casuals. Not to mention that a well balanced multiplayer game would still be as fun for singleplayer, while the opposite is not true in any way.
              Trust me, I know. If I hadn't been arguing, I'd have agreed on some things.

              MP improvements would be a good thing, as they lead to a larger player-base. However, better MP does NOT automatically lead to better SP.

              Originally posted by Krill View Post
              C4 vanilla was actually pretty crap with the AI...but it was a step up from C3. I still remember the communal "D'oh" moment when someone massively abused the fact that horses were always visible at hte start of the game. I don't think C5 has a whole quite that large , but it still seems to have all of these nigly small ones that just seem worse than C4 did at the start. Sure, they can get ironed out, but I think you have further to go than C4 did to being polished...
              Many of us agree with that statement, quite a few things being looked at. And have been for some time. All I can say, and even that is likely too much.
              Rise from Erebus - R i f E
              http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=360
              Member of the R i f E team

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              • And that's the reason I'd never agree to be a beta tester again No way I'm stopping criticizing something that I see has flaws, just to keeper the massas' happy by dancing a little jig, yessir, nosir, here be your afternoon snack sir.
                You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                • There's a difference between criticizing the game, which I have done, and revealing information about the testing process. There's also a difference between criticizing from the sofa and actually understanding a bit about game development. I say this, of course, having done way more than my share of sofa criticizing.

                  If you ever see me kowtowing, let me know. Trust me, it's not in my DNA.
                  I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                  "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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                  • You forget I've already done that job and seen the politics in it.
                    You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                    • It's far more fun to be confrontational, especially since I'm well aware that none of this is going to mean anything anyway. Just like I did with Civ3 and Civ 4 I simply won't play it and I'll just disappear again. There are bigger and better games out there if I want options. Lets face it, Firaxis is small time and always has been. The fact that they design the game from the ground up to be single player and are barely even able to ship a functioning MP shows just how small time they really are. No successful company these days ships a game or designs a game without the goal of building a huge MP community. Then again, most companies don't keep putting out the same game every few years with some features removed and then call it a brand new game.

                      As far as banning me as some have claimed should be done, take a look at the statistics on this thread. This is the most active thread this forum has seen EVER. Then again, all my posts over the years brought huge view and post counts, causing everyone to post over and over as they decried how bad the thread and my behavior was. Look around, this site isn't real active anymore, they should be paying me to do this **** and praying that I don't disappear again, which is inevitably going to happen since my time is too valuable to me.

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                      • Originally posted by Krill View Post
                        You forget I've already done that job and seen the politics in it.
                        No, I haven't forgotten. I see no politics in being able to criticize the game but NOT reveal information about the testing process. Do you?
                        I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                        "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DriXnaK View Post
                          You've apparently lost your sense of wit over the years Ming if you find that to be funny. Not surprising since I must question the sanity of someone who would voluntarily live in Chicago anyway and become a moderator on a forum.
                          Some things never change... Unfortunately! You haven't gotten any better with your supposed insults

                          You were at least entertaining in the past... but now, it's just old. When you get some new material, let us know.
                          "If black people robbed you, I'd not consider it prejudice for you to be angry at black people in general" - Ben Kenobi
                          Lessons in Christianity.

                          Keep on Civin'
                          RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                          • And yet you continue to post and read this topic Ming. Face it, you're like a rubber necker on a highway looking at a car crash. You can't help but stop and watch. Do I not entertain you? You need me Ming, because without me all those topics and posts over the years wouldn't exist. Your post count would be half what it is without me.

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                            • Yin, you do understand that your second to last post was a non sequitur, right? I never talked about criticizing the testing process, I talked about criticizing the game (expansions, mechanics, balance etc).
                              You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                              • Your implication is that you couldn't stand being a tester because you couldn't criticize the game, which I'm saying is patently false. It's entirely possible to be a highly effective beta tester AND be able to criticize the game. In fact, the best testers offer criticism all the time ... in fact, without it, they're basically not very useful. That said, neither is the tester who can't handle when the dev doesn't like his ideas.
                                I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                                "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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