Steamed!!!!!!

[Asher]

The main problem I have with people who ***** about Steam like it's "malware" or some massive invasion of privacy is the self-righteousness. Spencer seems to think a number indicating how much he played a game is so private it must be as important as his credit card number. How dare people find out! That is PRIVILEGED information. You are not worthy of knowing.

Do these people understand that everything they send on the internet is wide open? If he's so concerned about privacy, he shouldn't be online at all. Period.

Here's some more REALLY SCARY FACTS:

1) Any website can FIND OUT YOUR SCREEN RESOLUTION!
2) Any website can FIND OUT YOUR BROWSER VERSION!!!! AND TYPE!!!!!!!
3) Any website can install tracking cookies to record which sites you go to, so they can deliver targeted advertising AS WELL AS BUILD A MASSIVE DOSSIER ABOUT THE INSANELY INTERESTING PERSONAL LIVES OF PEOPLE LIKE SPENCERH.
4) Windows Vista/7 periodically phone home to ensure you have a legal version of your OS installed! WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION!!!@#@$#%
5) Every webbrowser sends, by default, every website you visit and usually also sends every character you type in the field (for "suggestions")
etc

All of these issues should be a far bigger concern than Steam, which updates your game for you and contains multiplayer-enabling components that game developers choose to utilize.

The people whining about this need to shut the **** up. The whining isn't going to change anything, and 99% of the time it's just misinformed bull****. It contributes nothing to this discussion.

If you want to continue to call me clueless, you can do so. But I'm fairly certain I'm far more clued in on this subject than most of you.

[Asher]

BTW, to the idiots claiming Steam uses up too much memory, blahblahblah.

It's not just there for fun. The steam client contains code the game uses, and would have to include anyway. Civ5 is using Steam for its API and components -- it's doing friends lists, matchmaking, achievements, voice chat, some multiplayer code, etc that would exist anyway. That memory is going to be used by the game either way, and if anything Steam is probably more efficient at its code as it's been tweaked for years and specifically designed to use minimal amounts of memory and resources.

[Dinner]

The only thing more annoying than "trolling about Steam" is the people that write posts like yours. No respect, insulting, self-righteous people that think Earth revolves around them.

It sounds like the new guy has Asher pegged.

[Asher]

The earth revolves around the sun, which is bright. This forum revolves around me, and I'm bright as well. Do you follow? Of course you follow -- you're a follower.

[ZEE]

.

[Roman]

The main problem I have with people who ***** about Steam like it's "malware" or some massive invasion of privacy is the self-righteousness. Spencer seems to think a number indicating how much he played a game is so private it must be as important as his credit card number. How dare people find out! That is PRIVILEGED information. You are not worthy of knowing.

Do these people understand that everything they send on the internet is wide open? If he's so concerned about privacy, he shouldn't be online at all. Period.

Here's some more REALLY SCARY FACTS:

1) Any website can FIND OUT YOUR SCREEN RESOLUTION!
2) Any website can FIND OUT YOUR BROWSER VERSION!!!! AND TYPE!!!!!!!
3) Any website can install tracking cookies to record which sites you go to, so they can deliver targeted advertising AS WELL AS BUILD A MASSIVE DOSSIER ABOUT THE INSANELY INTERESTING PERSONAL LIVES OF PEOPLE LIKE SPENCERH.
4) Windows Vista/7 periodically phone home to ensure you have a legal version of your OS installed! WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION!!!@#@$#%
5) Every webbrowser sends, by default, every website you visit and usually also sends every character you type in the field (for "suggestions")
etc

All of these issues should be a far bigger concern than Steam, which updates your game for you and contains multiplayer-enabling components that game developers choose to utilize.

The people whining about this need to shut the **** up. The whining isn't going to change anything, and 99% of the time it's just misinformed bull****. It contributes nothing to this discussion.

I am neither worried about the privacy aspect of Steam nor about the memory use. The one thing that bothers me about it is that by making the functioning (or activation/installation if the putative offline mode is used) dependent on external servers, the game's lifespan is limited by the length of time the company supports the DRM servers. The company can go bankrupt - we have seen major companies fail recently - they seemed strong and were far bigger than Valve. How many game companies from the past that were wildly successful in their time have failed? Many - and I still play some of their games from 10, 15, etc. years ago.

Even if it doesn't fail, when the company changes its business model, it can shut the servers down (e.g. what Sony, Microsoft, Wallmart and Yahoo did with their DRM-music - and these are huge companies) or it can simply cease support once the demand plummets (EA did that with multiplayer servers for many games - some only a year old). Indeed, the Steam EULA explicitly contains no guarantees on this. T

This is an artificially in-built dependence that can lead to expiration of game life time. That's my main problem with it. It's not just Steam, of course, it is any software that depends on online servers for functioning/installation/activation/etcetera. I really don't like where the software industry is heading in this regard. Sometimes this simply cannot be avoided, but whenever I can avoid it without suffering an undue cost, I will choose the path of avoiding it. Avoiding games using online checks is a particularly easy choice to make, as my cost of avoiding them amounts to some lost enjoyment, but the time that would be spent on them can be channeled into different enjoyable pursuits.

I am certainly not whining, I am merely explaining my position. Of course, I know that no change will be made to the game now, so I am already sure I will forego buying it, but I just thought it may be worthwhile to say why this is the case, given that there is a discussion of this topic ongoing in this thread. You may not consider this to be an important factor, but please recognize that there are some of us who do consider this to be a very important component in our software-purchasing decisions and that our position is legitimate.

[Aro]

I am neither worried about the privacy aspect of Steam nor about the memory use. The one thing that bothers me about it is that by making the functioning (or activation/installation if the putative offline mode is used) dependent on external servers, the game's lifespan is limited by the length of time the company supports the DRM servers. The company can go bankrupt - we have seen major companies fail recently - they seemed strong and were far bigger than Valve. How many game companies from the past that were wildly successful in their time have failed? Many - and I still play some of their games from 10, 15, etc. years ago.

Even if it doesn't fail, when the company changes its business model, it can shut the servers down (e.g. what Sony, Microsoft, Wallmart and Yahoo did with their DRM-music - and these are huge companies) or it can simply cease support once the demand plummets (EA did that with multiplayer servers for many games - some only a year old). Indeed, the Steam EULA explicitly contains no guarantees on this. T

This is an artificially in-built dependence that can lead to expiration of game life time. That's my main problem with it. It's not just Steam, of course, it is any software that depends on online servers for functioning/installation/activation/etcetera. I really don't like where the software industry is heading in this regard. Sometimes this simply cannot be avoided, but whenever I can avoid it without suffering an undue cost, I will choose the path of avoiding it. Avoiding games using online checks is a particularly easy choice to make, as my cost of avoiding them amounts to some lost enjoyment, but the time that would be spent on them can be channeled into different enjoyable pursuits.

I am certainly not whining, I am merely explaining my position. Of course, I know that no change will be made to the game now, so I am already sure I will forego buying it, but I just thought it may be worthwhile to say why this is the case, given that there is a discussion of this topic ongoing in this thread. You may not consider this to be an important factor, but please recognize that there are some of us who do consider this to be a very important component in our software-purchasing decisions and that our position is legitimate.

I've been a Steam user for years, and this is the only thing that make me a little scared. The rest don't bother me...
Well, it's like they say... Nothing is forever...

[Aro]

good troll thrade 4/5

Agreed. Nice troll thread.

[self biased]

By the way, "butthurt" is an appropriate tag for this article.

And Asher is definitely an expert on that

actually, I tagged this thread "butthurt." this thread is also the inspiration for my shiny new avatar.

[Jon Miller]

I love Steam.

Would be a bit nice if it was also on Impulse though.

Steam is also very Mac Friendly!

JM
(I hate DVDs/CDs)

[rah]

It does seem to me a bit silly to make a decision today based on a fear of what may happen 15 to 20 years from now, but maybe that's just because at 55, I'll probably be dead then.

[Jon Miller]

Steam Updates can be paused and restarted/etc.

No problems there.

BTW, I no longer use/own/etc games which are not available on Steam/Impulse/Battlenet.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

Your loss, man.

Personally I like getting the DVD. I hate downloading games unless I have to.

[Asher]

I also hate DVDs/CDs. When you move as much as I do, things have a habit of getting lost. I've also had some games I bought on DVD that simply stopped working due to age (Diablo II...).

Had to pirate the CD images then enter my (legit) key to play it again. It's for this reason I roll my eyes when people complain about "what happens if Steam goes under???". What happens when you lose your CD/DVD or it gets scratched or it stops working due to deterioration? Those are far more likely.

[Jon Miller]

I didn't play Civ4 when I wanted to for over 6 months once because I couldn't find the DVD/CD.

Now I have Civ4 on Steam and can play it whenever I want to on both the PC and the Mac.

JM
(I probably still have the CDs somewhere.)