1UP Yours: Future of the Franchise

[Locutus]

In this week's episode of 1UP's flagship podcast 1UP Yours as part of their "Whatchya Been Playing?" segment the show's hosts spent some time talking about their experiences with Civilization: Revolution. Host Garnett Lee played the XBox 360 version and liked how pace of the game allows him to finish a full game in only a few brief sittings. He also compliments the controls, and the hosts discuss the aggressiveness of the AI and the small maps and how these affect gameplay.

John Davison played the Nintendo DS version of the game and is impressed by the fact that it's the full game from the consoles only with 2D graphics, and also likes the DS's controls that allow you play either entirely with or entirely without the touch screen if you want, as well as the intuitive interface:

Everything is always mapped left and right, so it's like actions are on the left and then more resourcy things are on the right, and it works that way for whatever you're doing whether you're managing a city or you're managing anything else in the game, you always know where the type of activity is managed.

The hosts' main criticisms are that the conquest path is really only one viable way to play the game, the other victory types aren't nearly as compelling, and that the finer aspects of control are lacking, e.g. you can't change governments whenever you want, only when the game presents you with the possibility.

Garnett Lee comments that once you've played CivRev, you probably don't want to go back to the PC version of Civ because the faster gameplay makes it far superior. The hosts even wonder if the series will ever return to the PC now, they consider CivRev to be the future of the franchise -- although they do recognise there's still a large audience for the PC version and Firaxis could still continue cater to that as well if they want.

You can download 1UP Yours from 1UP or search for it on iTunes. The CivRev discussion starts 27:55m into the two-and-a-half-hour show and lasts about 15 minutes.

[Locutus]

What do you think? Is CivRev the future of the franchise because it's shorter, streamlined gameplay simply appeals to a much larger audience (note how, as mentioned on the podcast, the game sold out in just a few days in the US), or is it a fun thing to play on the side that will maybe attract some new people to the PC version, but that can't be seen as a proper replacement?

[Maquiladora]

Re: 1UP Yours: Future of the Franchise

Originally posted by Locutus

The hosts' main criticisms are that the conquest path is really only one viable way to play the game,

I haven't listened to what they said, but that is BS. In fact the peaceful victories (cultural, space race, economic) are often easier than conquest IMO, because defending is cheap and easy and spies are so good.

the other victory types aren't nearly as compelling, and that the finer aspects of control are lacking, e.g. you can't change governments whenever you want, only when the game presents you with the possibility.

Eh, as long as you have researched the government you want, you can switch at any time, at least on the DS version (press select, bottom option IIRC).

What do you think? Is CivRev the future of the franchise because it's shorter, streamlined gameplay simply appeals to a much larger audience (note how, as mentioned on the podcast, the game sold out in just a few days in the US), or is it a fun thing to play on the side that will maybe attract some new people to the PC version, but that can't be seen as a proper replacement?

It's just another future of the franchise. It might influence the next PC version, but it won't replace it (yet).

[Locutus]

Re: Re: 1UP Yours: Future of the Franchise

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I haven't listened to what they said, but that is BS. In fact the peaceful victories (cultural, space race, economic) are often easier than conquest IMO, because defending is cheap and easy and spies are so good.

A LOT of the reviews we're reported on have pointed this out, although they mostly cite as reason that the AI is just overly hostile which makes war unavoidable. May have something to do with the fact that most reviewers haven't played Civ nearly as much as the people here have, which means their experiences with the game can be very different from ours as hardcore fans.

Eh, as long as you have researched the government you want, you can switch at any time, at least on the DS version (press select, bottom option IIRC).

John Davison did point out he didn't read the manual unless he got stuck (which happened once), so he may have missed that

It's just another future of the franchise. It might influence the next PC version, but it won't replace it (yet).

I dunno, considering how popular it is and how the strategy genre in general has really become very, very hardcore over the years and has been appealing to less and less people, I can see CivRev becoming the mainstay of the franchise. PC Civ will probably not disappear anytime soon, but I can see it taking a back seat. That's not how we as hardcore will see it no doubt, but it may be how Firaxis and especially 2K will look at things.

[Maquiladora]

Re: Re: Re: 1UP Yours: Future of the Franchise

Originally posted by Locutus

A LOT of the reviews we're reported on have pointed this out, although they mostly cite as reason that the AI is just overly hostile which makes war unavoidable. May have something to do with the fact that most reviewers haven't played Civ nearly as much as the people here have, which means their experiences with the game can be very different from ours as hardcore fans.

Going to war with most (if not all) AI's at some point is not uncommon, but that is different from saying the "conquest path" is the only viable way to play. That implies that you can only play the game by conquering other civs, which is not true at all. Again I haven't listened to the review so it may have come across differently.

[dojoboy]

Re: Re: Re: 1UP Yours: Future of the Franchise

Originally posted by Locutus
A LOT of the reviews we're reported on have pointed this out, although they mostly cite as reason that the AI is just overly hostile which makes war unavoidable. May have something to do with the fact that most reviewers haven't played Civ nearly as much as the people here have, which means their experiences with the game can be very different from ours as hardcore fans.

Locutus, this is not aimed at you. I've just been reading tons of "hurt feelings" in various forums over the AI's warring nature.

Why is it TBS/RTS strategy gamers cannot role play and apply abstract values/interpretation to game features? Or, is this the result of new players entering the series? Probably, but these folks aren't new to gaming I'd assume. Taking on the leadership of a civilization and leading it through time should be the epitome of RPG. Yet, once the application of a feature rocks their play they cry foul. In CivRev, you are not forced to go on the offensive. I've been at war a great deal, and I'd say less than 50% of the time do I go on the offensive. I defend and work toward my victory goal. And, if you think about it, the "state of war" in CivRev has no other implications other than you need to pay attention to sensitive defense points. Since CivRev has no reputation or trade system, declarations of war have no bearing on "your permanent record." (for all of you who were bad boys & girls in school)

Originally posted by Locutus
What do you think? Is CivRev the future of the franchise because it's shorter, streamlined gameplay simply appeals to a much larger audience (note how, as mentioned on the podcast, the game sold out in just a few days in the US), or is it a fun thing to play on the side that will maybe attract some new people to the PC version, but that can't be seen as a proper replacement?

Can CivRev be the future of the franchise? I think that's the question. The desktop is where depth lies, so Civ5 is in the pipeline. Where can CivRev be more streamlined? How can CivRev be improved upon, yet remain streamlined?

What I feel would make sense for CivRev, is that Firaxis and Take2 look at historical periods or scifi, utilizing the concept established w/ CivRev. They can't come out w/ CivRev2 and offer nothing other than fluff. It would have to be more in-depth, and then you begin losing the folks you went after.

I've already read several posts by gamers whose first taste of Civ is w/ CivRev, and their question has been: "Should I get Civ3 or Civ4?" What we're looking at here folks is a "feeder program." Well, not really, but... .

I'm curious how the DS CivRev players will react to Pocket History: Rome once it's released. That game is going to be awesome, I hope. The developers (Slitherine) say it's w/ Nintendo for approval - looking at a Sept./Oct. '08 release.

Great Empires: Rome is the first in a series of classic turn based strategy games, but for the Nintendo DS! Finally handheld gamers will get the chance to play a real strategy game while on the move. The first game is set in ancient Rome, and the player can take control of the Romans or any of the numerous opposing tribes, empires and city-states they faced. At the strategic level the player controls vast armies and must carve an Empire from the assortment of tribes and city-states that occupied ancient Italy and France. At the tactical level the player must position their armies to take advantage of terrain and make use of the best formations, to ensure victory. In addition Great Empires: Rome includes a series of mini games and an encyclopaedia, so when you are all conquered out there is still plenty of fun to be had! With its addictive gameplay and convenient handheld platform, Great Empires: Rome is the ideal entertainment for those long business trips! Do you have what it takes to become the next Emperor?

Features:

* 20+ sides - gamers play against up to 20 unique opponents, each depicting the nations of the Roman Republican and early empire era.
* Detailed economy - players control their cities, allocate workers, increase production by constructing new buildings, build fortresses for protection and train new regiments.
* Historical accuracy - all maps, scenarios, soldiers’ uniforms and weapons are accurately modelled to capture the flavour of the ancient world and its warfare.
* Diplomacy - with so many nations, careful use of diplomacy will be required to succeed.
* 3D battlefields - the battlefield is made up of 3D rendered terrain and will affect the combat model.
* Huge realistic battles - based on historical data, the combat model gives the most realistic look and feel as hundreds of men are displayed in epic battles.
* 3 levels of difficulty - provide a challenge for all would be armchair generals.