Starting The Fantasy Mod...help

[Bane Star]

sounds good, since there isn't much of limit on how many resources you can have... why not... the lucky person who can keep the pegasus resource, can make the pegasus unit....

[statusperfect]

i've been thinking more along these lines
anvil for iron
coin for gold
pot for copper
buste for marble
etc.

but if you want bars i'll make you bars

cheers

[statusperfect]

BTW:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=44321

[Bane Star]

Yeah, I realise

I knew that I wouldn't be the only person to do a fantasy Mod, Thats why I'm taking so long to do mine... because I'm REALLY going to town on the ammount of work I'm putting into it. The hardest part at the moment is getting each and every part to fit and work, since its crashed a few times, and making changes in the original editions ( I've forgotten how to make changes to the bix file....aiyee) and real life to contend with as well....

The other thing... I'm going for a specific set of needs for this mod, Gamesmaster needs: This mod is so that I (and any other games masters) can make a world up in much less time than it normally takes, ready for roleplaying: Towns are named and practically mapped, each with it economical and social factors, only a few things are going to be My world specific, such as Great wonders, but any GM can easily change these names for his own purposers.

Also My Tech Tree.... I studied a few great books about the history of inventions, and surprised to see that my previous conceptions of how inventions were developed came about. I have accordingly changed my tech tree to follow the pathing more realistic and logical, The first Era is really a lot of ancient Techs, Most of the Techs will not be required to attain the next Era, infact if somehow you can trade for 2 of the high level techs, your race can attain 2nd Era before having any of the previous technologies.

From this point on, MOST of the Techs branch off into 4 distinct categories: Science, Magic, Religion and Warfare, Studying One path provides many quick troops/buildings or advantages, at the cost of being weak against the other 3, but trying to have all 4 will not only be difficult, but I'm following a paper, rock scissors effect on Science, Magic, Religeon. If you invent certain techs in one, you negate some of the benefits in others. Some Great wonders will be cancelled out quickly if a player tries to get all the 'cheap' techs, but if they stick to just the 'magic' tech, then the wonder will last longer (of course if your opponent follows your oposing techs, he will cancel out your wonder so you need to go destory him before he does...

To make things easier on the players I'm thinging of putting (M), (S), (R) or (W) infront of the respecting tech path, Magic, Science, Relgion or Warfare.

Each of the trees will have an advantage upon the Warfare tech tree: Magic & Warfare= Battel Mages, Science and Warfare=Cannons, Religion and Warfare=Crusades, etc etc you get the idea right?

Oh and of course I'm making the Map screen in old hand drawn style so that you can print screen and have a map of the area for roleplay. I'll release the mod without this, for players who dont want this... and players who do can just download the Sketch graphics from the thread...
Sketched Grahics Mod

[Bane Star]

Thanks status perfect

well done on finding those graphics, well done.

How about if all of the graphics are new... rather than using any of the old Civ3 stuff...

[Admiral PJ]

I have had a lot of scneario editing experience, my own scenario is working well (a full expanded civ earth thing).

I've managed to make new Techs, like Sovereignty, and make terrain moverates different, deserts and tundra take 2 move squarees per move.

It would be nice to see your mod looking like a Lord of the rings style thing, with some nice ancient Greek mythology there too, and the dungeons and dragons etc styles.

I wonder if you could make dwarven tunnels, perhaps there could be a seperate terrain set Mod for this, the Subterannean Fantasy mod, it would need a handmade map with bedrock Terrain as impassable cave walls, like in the Test of time Fantasy scenario.
Thise cave system idea could be used on a surface map,
but the underground bits could be put at the middle or bottom of the map, or be small sections where theres mountains. There could be long cave tunnels passing through the maps, with doorways to let units through them or into them, maybe with dragons guarding entrances.
Imagine fighting battles where you can only move units forwards or back, I hope the AI understands this.
You could have sea to create the impassable cave walls, and allow some tunneling dwarf units to travel across tunnels, or build cities between tunnels to link them.
It would be interesting to make this a scenario like an RPG game, with each unit representing 1 monster/ character, and cities would be more like characters houses/ cave homes.

Maybe you should use the Spaceship construction system in the fantasy, maybe as some sort of great magical spell or quest.
It could be involved with a plot /story for the scenario, though you can't put a proper plot into civ3 yet.
Perhaps the evil black magic has taken over the world, and you need to do a number of quests to destroy the black magic and end magic once and for all, or bring about a time of good magic.. Maybe a new scenario afterwards could be for the Time after the Dark Age, without magic.
'spaceship' components or Quest Items, could include one needing an invincibility Potion to be created to Slaughter Hells Demon guardian Cerberus, which needs 5 Wizards Magic Towers, 1 resource of Holy Immortality Spring water, and the Advance of Divine Immortality Lore, and needs to be built in a city near the Holy Spring resource. This is just a quick idea, needs work, and it would just be one stage upon the final quest.
I'd be willing to help you with anything.

AdmiralPJ - Peter

[Bane Star]

It would be nice to see your mod looking like a Lord of the rings style thing, with some nice ancient Greek mythology there too, and the dungeons and dragons etc styles.

Actually I was hoping to steer clear of doing something that fits into these categories. Two reasons
1. The ammount of people that would try to tell me what I have done wrong, what isn't right, or how I should be doing things... I've seen too many groups of people argue about the correct order of events in LotR, or the attack values of my Hydra isn't compatible with the D&D 3rd Ed rule set (let alone 3.5 ).
2. I reasearched alot of history of inventions and would like the medieval part of the game to take a bit longer, Realistically my tech tree sticks to plausible paths of inventions, the lack of some programming ability requiring resources to research technologies - e.g. if you dont have tin and copper, you CANNOT invent Bronze... does make it a little harder to stick to a realistic tech tree.. but I have no choice. Its only the 3rd and fourth Ages when players start really getting some fantasy techs for themselves... unless of course you chose a starting race that is Sooo different: Goblins, Trolls, Merfolk.... etc etc...

The other thing is that ANYONE can make a D&D mod, and probably people will use my graphics to make thier own LotR or Greek Mythology... Yes I have Minotaurs, Hydras, Kraken, Harpies, Medusa, Cyclops and specific questlike events.... capturing pre-existing cities that have Wonders within: Golden Fleece, Collossus, you probably know more of them than me..

[Bane Star]

UPDATE: through mucking with the editor, after reading a post somehwere, I've REDUCED the cultural influence... See barbarians are affected by how much UNtouched land there is that has been discovered, By having slow culture borders, this means more barbarians/creatures... also since this is suposed to be a GM's Creation tool, it also allows for more untouched land for 'adventurers' to go exploring...

Dont worry, I'll Make 2 bix versions of my mod, One with all the normal settings and one with my personal settings.... since its really just a few tweaks on the Civ editor it wont take more than a minute to do..

[Admiral PJ]

I wrote these in txt last week,
I like your tech tree ideas Bane, it would be good to make a big far more indepth tech tree than civ3 has.

Scenario Modding: You can make special reward objects/units, by making capturable units like Workers. These special quest units
can be one offs that have a high build costs so you can disband them and get lots of free production in a city, or they can be powerful
millitary units, or act like leaders or armies ( game dosen't like you mucking around with some units though like leaders).
I've also thought about using this to have a unit that can be upgraded to another special unit cheaply, these special units could be
like building components(a combustion engine maybe, or in this case a Mana magic crystal, which can be used to make a advanced Spell.)

NOTE: you can't capture a unit that you dont know its tech for, so you'd have to have these quest units in your techtree somewhere,
but make it need a resource that can't be used so it can't be built perhaps(maybe other ways around this). This would be good,
meaning you need to research Exotic Magic Lore , which is the study of advanced rare magics of the older ancient civilisations or gods.

It would be nice to have special items, like rare Weapons.. swords, armor, magic rings. These could be immobile units which have a
high bombard level or special air/invisible detection options. These could be found in tricky places to reach, maybe defended by
large monsters.

I'm making my own game, which is a science fiction game with lots of fantasy elements in, such as magic.
Its an original commercial game , not using any other engines or work. I have different magic schools(types), I suppose schools could be
done in Civ3 by making them government types, and civs gov dislike can be its opposing 'government' magic school.

IDEAS: how about one civ can make Infite bombard range units, like nuclear bombs .. maybe a Death Plague Cloud, from the Death magic
necromancer spells.

Has anyone else got NEverwinter nights? this is quite good for editing too I think (probably not as good though).. this and baldurs
gate have the best fantasy i've seen in a game, though its basically copied from advanced dungeons and dragons 2 and 3.

PS. Is that radar unit option new? I see aegis units have it, this could be useful for Modding. Maybe a seers stone that can see
for an extended range? (clairvoyancy tech needed).
Stealth option would be useful as well.


I agree its good to make this more an original fantasy game. I also like the middle ages era of history, perhaps you could extend it right to the end of the middle ages, into the rennaisance a bit, with democracy being the final tech perhaps.

[Bane Star]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
Scenario Modding: You can make special reward objects/units, by making capturable units like Workers. These special quest units
can be one offs that have a high build costs so you can disband them and get lots of free production in a city,

Yes of course, Since capturing a unit in a fantasy mod might be difficult to represent, having a slave unit as the captured unit, that isn't normally allowed to be built but has a high build cost and can be disbanded for a quick boost... good idea!.

The game code as far as I know is that whenever a unit with a defence 0 is captured...i.e. settlers & workers, they are only workers (since it is the designated captured unit) so I'd make up a slave and put it into the slot.

... special items, like rare Weapons.. swords, armor, magic rings.

Can Immobile units be picked up by an army and carried? If so then this would be cool, Otherwise maybe a Hero Unit that has a great attack score but no defence and while he's great in battle he tend to go for who pays the most (who currently has captured him)

The Magic schools idea looks worthwhile looking into, Since My Game breaks into 4 elements of Warfare, Magic, Science and Religion, maybe they could sub-divide for War-like, Neutral and Peacful versions of each for governments.... good idea...

I'm still tweaking the Techs for the last Era.....

{QUOTE}IDEAS: how about one civ can make Infite bombard range units, like nuclear bombs .. maybe a Death Plague Cloud, from the Death magic
necromancer spells.[/QUOTE] Yes my necromancers and Demonologists have a weapon like this each, but they dont have access to 5 government types.

I haven't tested the rader options yet, what does it do....??

Yeah the Game does follow much of Earths Historical Technologies, Only the addition of magic and actual in game gods for religion make the last 2 Eras the fantasy part, you could delete the magic part and all its techs for a caveman-reniassance(spl?) Mod.

[Jhoniten]

not sure if this is possible or how to go about doing it if it is. How about a buildable unit that requires tin and copper and when built activates an event that gives you bronze. something like an alchemist or metallurgist.

[Bane Star]

Thats on my civ3:conquests wish list

At the moment units, buildings and even workers can require resources to build (or perform tasks), I would LOVE if I could also put any and all of the following in the 'required' list:- units, buildings, wonders, city size, resources, no. of cities, no of lost units, no of winning units, techs.... and each of the above mention have any of them as requirements... thats my wish.. But sadly NO. you cannot at the moment...

Case examples:... I'd like to have copper and tin as pre-requisites for Bronze making, (resources for techs), I'd like to have Armoury and weaponsmith as building requirements for Units in the middle-ages. I'd like techs to have event requirements before thay are reseachable... e.g. City walls are only buildable if you actually get attacked, Catapults are only buildable if you encounter a city with walls and you lose when you attack....(this is what really happened in history... learning from mistakes)

I'd like alot of things... that they didn't do... So I'll mod around the restrictions and make it as Good as I bloody well can

[Bane Star]

Ok going over my last few discussion threads and making a few edits to the Alpha Version, Thanks to the Team who help me test what we did until it crashed, I've fixed it now but we'll try again in a few weeks ok..

Ok, So Ideas from threads that need to be mentioned here I'll need some responses either by ICQ, this thread or email,
Race specific resources; What should each race have?

Early ships & some units will have no-affiliation so that people can explore more without being restricted by the computer kicking out those units and wingeing if your in thier territory for exploritory reasons. Since they 'remember' the transgression for ever... last time I heard, Scandanavia and England are ok about that whole 'viking raids' incident, 2 thousand+ years ago....

Barbarians will be : Zombies, Rogues and Sea Serpents... Killer butterflies will exists still under the "creatures" Race which wont have tech access until 'MUCH' later in the game, but will be able to make all sorts of annoying critters for all sorts of purposes...

The City Walls have expanded out into several defencive Units and Structures, so just strolling up to a city with 2 spearmen as defence, wont be easy to defeat, and 'be-seiging' (spl?) will be more effective, only problem I have is that troops no longer have city related costs, you cannot 'starve' troops to death by surrounding it and cutting off all resources...

The Ballisti, Catapult and Trebuchet are going to be sub-divided into some extra sets to include Fixed vs Wheeled versions, Flaming weaponry for advanced chemistry, and a Magic explosive version of the Trebuchet,.. oh and the Demons, Goblins and Necromancers should have a UU for the Catapult throwing horrible things or small creatures... higher %...

With of course other bonuses for cities to defend against these units....

Race Additions... due to the race increase, I'll add some more possibilites to the list...
-large human/horse/lion, six-legged warlike creatures
-insectoid race
-serpent-men
-crocodile men
-cold tundra race?...

Oh the REAL problem at the moment is getting all 31 races to fit into the 5 racial picture limit... I can easily have the 'specific job' races as seperate, but what about people themselves... One Idea s to change it to a 'crowd' of people, rather than heads... Humanoids normal size, Humanoids Shorter stature, Reptile styled, I need 2 more... VERY GENERIC 'groups' from the races provided.... If I have enough 'types' of a given race I'd consider it... e.g. goblinoids/insectoids/multi-limbed/multi-legged... at the moment goblins will use the shorter race icons and Orcs the larger icons, I'll make the faces/clothing colour effected...

This also applies to the Cities....31 races and 5 possible city types.... so restrictive....

Um.. is that all for now?>... maybe...

[Bane Star]

FOUND IT

After much searching I found my old Civ2 Version of this Mod, Incase you play Civ2, you can have some fun with it...

[Bane Star]

Next....

Ok, So I've been viewing the threads, and Normal Civ is supposing that each UNIT is representing an army of those unit types.... and the stats are represented such.. For My MOD.. NOPE... Each Unit wil represent either a small force (10-20) of Men of a given type or in the case of ships, seige weapons and other oddities.. 1 given unit...So... most bombardment WILL have the ability to destroy units.. This allows Catapults and the like to defend the shores against the enemy, also Later game abilities to sail in Sea and Ocean become strategically worthwhile.... I'm hoping to really get some major Sea-faring stuff happening...

Oh I'm thinking of adding in the Civ3Ext program so that I can have more than 512 cities and 4096 Units...