Starting The Fantasy Mod...help

[Bane Star]

Ok, So I've checked out all the stuff I'm going to do, but I need a little help from some people that have been modding a while, For example, How do I ADD terrains, Is it possible ???

[Bane Star]

Ok, So I've briefed through hundreds of Threads on creation and modding. I've gone over in detail the changes I can and Cannot make to Civ3,

I had an idea I wrote down everything I wanted to do to the game for my Fantasy Mod, and I waited,PTW released, I finally got a computer and a English version of the Game to start modding, But There is so much that is unchangable

So Heres My Thread: I may or may not have missed some things that can and cannot be changed, So in the interets of Modding can anyone drop thier few cents into this, Hopefully Others can read through this and Use the Ideas and Information that others have given for thier own use:

OK, So Terrains Cannot be changed RIGHT? This S*&Ks but I have discovered one get around, I think...
There are effectively 2 Deserts, One that affects river graphics and another that doesn't. Since I'd think that any river running through a desert will affect the desert, then the extra desert is a spare terrain for me, I'm thinking of Swamps or some other Dangerous Terrain.

Citizen Faces, How many can I make/Add, I'm thinking of Multi-races So the Stock standard 5 male 5 female x 4 ages is not enough, I'll need 10 minimum, maybe more. and then the scientist/taxman/entertainer, I'm gonna want to have the Mad scientist (+3Sci-1 Happy) etc etc,

Unique Units, Ok I have a Huge task ahead of me in this area, Each Race having a UU for each possible troop and a whole bunch of graphic to make, Luckily I have a few friends working on 3D programs, I'm working on some 3D and anyone else who is doing the same feel free: First things first Make a Basic Human shape 45-80 Poly's and basic clothing, then animate the walk, attack, death etc, and screen shot

Ages: I'd like to Add an Age, The Dark Ages, Alot of Techs cancelling out Units and Buildings with Upgrades that are slightly less powerful but more even, This promotes an Era of Not getting reasearch and expansion only and adds a flavour to the game. Adding Ages seems difficult if not impossible.

Techs, Units, Buildings, These all seem to be Completely Editable, What restrictions are there? what known limitations, etc etc

Whats with the Diplomats and Spies... Can I Add missions? Can I Edit mission costs or status?

Are Gov Specific Buildings and Wonders Fixed yet? Do the abilities switch on or off for the government you are in? If they do Great, If they dont, Make the cost to build them higher so switching Gov's to get buildings will cost you in Long game terms, since you have to stay in a Gov that is restrictive just to gain benefits of Buildings

I dont yet understand the Culture Values, Propaganda or Resistance Initial and Continued, I have an idea , but anyone wanna fill me inon the technicals of this

What happened to the Resource Requirements for Technologies??? I thought this was in an Editor somehwre did I dream this up ????

Workers Jobs: I've seen some pcx files that show another 20+ possible actions that could be automated or performed by troops/workers, Can I add more???

Natural resources, well this looks fun, There are easily 20 Resources that I'll have for Technological reasons/Units/Buildings etc, maybe 10-12 Luxury resources, I've seen that only 8 will be counted in the city happiness but I'll be only putting certain resources in once or twice in my maps, making cultural diversity for the game feel. You need remember that The Real Idea for my mod is to Make a World Creation Program for my Roleplay Game, so Real world Feel and Interest is higher on my priority.

Heres the Bigger Question... Why did they Limit everything by thier minimalist Needs, Why Not Make the Game in basic Binary Numbers for everything and then only use the bare minimum, 256 techs, units, buildings, resources, governments, races, etc etc, While I'd never even think of more than 12 possible variances of Governments someone else might come up with a reason to have very minimal changes of government

Oh Yeah Govenments, I'll be having the originals, plus some other fun looking ideas (once again for game feel) Matriarchy(woman ruled), Obligrachy(old people??), (magic ruled) (religion ruled) (Mentailist ruled) (War Monger ruled) (Herbalist ruled??) (Hippy tree huggy Ruled) 3 versions of communism - I've seen china and Russia, and I know the general Idea of what Communism was supposed to be, Capitalism, Socialism, Facism, Why not,

Since I think that the Treasury should also represent the Treasure that The Empire has stored across its Lands, and that Taking a Town from your Opponent should Involve taking a Chunk of thier Treasure, I'm going to See if I can Affect the way the Treasure is gained and spent, I'd like the AI to have Thousands upon thousands of Gold, and spending it should be last resort, ditch effort, Nothing more pitiful than taking out a city and getting 0 gold, or worse, Taking down the Capital for a lousy 20 gold....

Also to represent The Real Number of Armies Medieval Europe Had I'd like to increase the ratio of Armies, the sizes, the HP, everything, Rather than having stray troop groups across the Maps, I'd rather see Individualist Armies marching against the Enemt, I've yet to see an Army on Army battle, for that matter more than 3 armies in any given game, and I lost 2 of my armies attacking a lousy single Unit, Hmmm.

Ok, enough, Post here your knowledges of What Can and Cannot be done about Modding, rather, Post disccusion about this thread Here

I gotta go teach some russian Girls some English..... Bannister Out...

[Mizaq]

cant add terrains, you could make river/deserts look like swamps, but they would in fact be desert.

cant add ages. You could possibly bump up tech costs in the middle age so they cost more than a modern age tech, that would certainly slow everything down in the middle ages, may not work out how you expect though.

i do believe with ptw you can add popheads now (couldnt before).

better luck incorporating existing player-made units into your mod than creating them from scratch.

can't add worker jobs.

you dreamed up the resource requirement for techs.

cant add spy/diplo missions

I have no suggestions for getting the AI to save their money. Well, maybe make them not want to trade with anyone.

Make armies more common by making them easier to make. For instance, not requiring a victorious army to build them.

[self biased]

if you need fluff written, i'd be happy to lend a hand.

[Bane Star]

Originally posted by self biased
if you need fluff written, i'd be happy to lend a hand.

fluff? you mean stuff? or civlopedia? please feel free to write up some txt files about anything medieval, or fantasy, I'm sure that when the mod is nearing completion I'll be a stickler for getting everything just right in the civlopedia and that'll take extra time if I have to write it all up, I'll use pretty much everything that anyone contributes or at least paraphrase and give credit where its due...
thanks

[Bane Star]

IDEAS are flowing from my brain

Ok, Heres some more things I wanna check on... feedback guys would be appreciated.

Problem, Corruption: too often I see cities with production of 1, because of high corruption, I want to see how the corruption buildings counter this, is it 50% curruption reduction? and therefore the second coruption reduction is 50% of the remaining 50% giving effective 75%? I was hoping to change this value somehow...
If not changable I was thinking of raising the shield costs and the shield output of terrain, and adding some earlier level production boosters like Blacksmiths, Dwarven Forges, Master carpenters, etc, so that the total Production is higher and the extra corruption reducers at the top end (the third corruption reducer would be 12% and then a fourth would be 6%

Problem:How do I adjust the Population Values for the civ reports and the like, I'm going to up the city sizes for my game values, but I dont want to have millions of population...

I'm also going to increase the value required for Culture borders, so that I have more Unowned terrain, (where will the monsters of the world live if everything is under control of the civs??? and out some very low end culture improvments with no ongoing costs, such as statues, fountains, temples to particular gods, pit fighting, taverns, guard posts, night watch, city gates, city walls, markets, arenas, bazaars, moneylenders, minor swerage, major sewerage, sewer wardens, most of these will be small or no real benefit, just asthetic for city content. with no benefit there will be no ongoing costs, and If I can I will give other types of costs instead of just cash.

Mountains, I'm testing the ideas in other threads of Impassable terrains and making most or all unit Wheeled, so that knights cannot traverse jungles or mountains, But wheat about dwarves, how do I make them mountaineers... have I missed something?

Can I add values such as reduce culture, science, entertainment, happiness or the like to buildings, wonders etc? can I have my Night watch reduce corruption at the cost of 1 happy face and 1 gold, can my Mystic Music Hall make happiness at the cost of science (free thinking is reduced)

I've checked out that many churches reduced one type of corruption in the early middleages, but lead to futher corruption in the later middleages, Is there a way to add scenario events that adjust the game values??

Lastly I will make most of the wonders into 'aquisitions of magical items' I never liked the idea of someone beating me to the constuction of a buildings and I have to lose all the shields, in a real world the building would still be mostly completed, standing for people to see, but the competeive idea of some adventuring party being funded to find a magical item, and great heroes able to advance in one turn seems more realistic.

Ok, gotta go teach

[Bane Star]

Sharing the Ideas

In a general Sense, I think that If I share my Mod Ideas as I create, maybe others might profit from the ideas, or Maybe someone might put in thier own 2 cents which will spark my own brain in further developments.

Ok, I'm turning off the first set of inventions such as Irriagtion, Mining and Roads, and No starting inventions. If I can I'll also delete the trade of Invention until a certain Technology advance.

3 Start of Game Wonders, with Resourse requirements:
The ZIGGURAT OF KA-UMAEN
Reduce corruption at cost of happiness
LIVING FOREST ENCLAVE
Reduce pollution, reduce Corruption, Reduce science
The MINES OF CIXTOLIS
Pays all city costs reduces happiness

These are Game world Items that I need for the roleplay world, Makes intersting to see if Players will go for the Big ticket items early too.

CASH COWS: I hate how the computer never has any cash, and when I take out a city there is little to no cash at all, Historically they Slashed and burned alot of the city, for all its wealth, but still took it over as a new place. So I've come up with some buildings/places that the AI allways builds, they cost nothing to upkeep, they do nothing (or any bonus is offset by production cost requirement) but what you can do is 'sell' them when you take out the city if you want to raise some quick funds, The Governors of your own city will build them too, and they are a great city production waster when you dont want to make any more troops or costly buildings, but wealth only provides the 1 gold, and the Governor constantly changes from wealth to something else. Also they provide some great 'roleplay' points.
Also I've made some of them Gov specific.

These are like, Burial mounds (for Despotism), Dungeon Hordes, Monastery relics, Secret Chambers, Royal treasury's, Crypts, Specialised Temples, Treasure houses, etc etc

Many of them require certain resources like, Marble, Gold, gems, Jewels, Magic, to build.

Question: When I sell buildings I get a " you get 4 gold and 0 sheilds" message, When does the shields bonus happen and can I turn it off?

Ok Resources to Add,Birch, Wood, Stone, Copper, Iron, Zircon, Magic, Gold, Gems, Horses, Big Cats, Big Wolves, Special Terrain
The Cats and Dogs are for the UU's Goblins and I think also Dwarves Ride on Big Dogs, depending on the fantasy culture you grew up with.

In Civ2, I created (as many did) Special terrains as a Unit. It had a movement of 0 and could not be created. You placed them in the editor, and assigned a scenario event to its death. Something like the lost Mines of Moria, or something. when the player managed to send enough troops to defeat it, the player was rewarded with something fantastic, Well Do you think its possible to do the same?
Heres a few ideas: I've made Mountains Impassable, So I could leave a gap, and place a very high level 'dragon' at the gap, the inside of the area is a lush 1 city location with 2-3 resources in its locale, or same thing with lots of goody huts,
Did alot of the creative energy get used up in Civ2, I saw alot of really good dungeons and ideas along those lines, Is it too hard to do that in Civ3?

GOVERNMENTS
Ok, So I'll have Despotism... Is there something before despotism??, Feudalism, Monarchy, Magiarchy, Matriarchy, Geriarchy, Republic, Dietarchy(Religeon based??) Mentarchy(mentalist/Psychics)
anything else from medi-eval literature/fantasy novels that anyone can remember?

Races...Ok this has been discussed at leangth, and since I can have 31 races, Its obvious that I'll add them all. One by one... after the basic mod work is done...
Human: Anglo Saxon
Human:American Indian
Human:European
Human:Asian
Human:African
Dwarven: Freindly
Dwarven: Not Freindly (Chaos Dwarves??)
Halfing:
Kender:
Elven: Forest/City
Elven: Dark/Drow
Orcs:
Goblins
Birdmen/Buteons
Merfolk
Other Oceana
Lizardmen
Beastmen
Skaven (Ratmen)
Caitshee (Catmen)
Necromancer/Undead
Demonologist/Demons

Ok, Enough for now.....

[Bane Star]

2 week pause on this Mod, I'm going back to australia, leaving russia, SOb SOb all the pretty girls....


I'll be back

But mean time, what other Mods are going to use fantasy graphics, I've gotten ahold of the latest 3D Max, and will me making some graphics as soon as I get home, gonna be working 3D hard to get my Mod out and about.

Ok

[Captain Crunch]

Sounds like a cool scenario. Personally though, I am looking for a pure Tolkien themes scenario. This is close enough though.

By the way, if you need a project forum, ask the administrator here. He is a nice guy and has provided forums for other projects.

[Bane Star]

Thanks, I'm asking now....

[pdescobar]

Re: IDEAS are flowing from my brain

I realize some of this is old, but this thread just got bumped I don't see any other responses to these posts, so....

Originally posted by Bane Star
Problem:How do I adjust the Population Values for the civ reports and the like, I'm going to up the city sizes for my game values, but I dont want to have millions of population...

I don't believe this is changeable.

Mountains, I'm testing the ideas in other threads of Impassable terrains and making most or all unit Wheeled, so that knights cannot traverse jungles or mountains, But wheat about dwarves, how do I make them mountaineers... have I missed something?

In PTW, there is an "ignore movement cost for certain terrain" option on the units screen. You could give the dwarves an ignore movement cost on mountains like the PTW Keshik has which means they move on mountains as if they are roads. Don't know of anything else though.

Can I add values such as reduce culture, science, entertainment, happiness or the like to buildings, wonders etc? can I have my Night watch reduce corruption at the cost of 1 happy face and 1 gold, can my Mystic Music Hall make happiness at the cost of science (free thinking is reduced)

From my experiences with DyP, you can definitely give negative happiness and have it work. Negative pollution works too, although a negative production bonus cannot be done. I don't know about culture, but you can input negative values in the editor for it... Science and entertainment, however are flags, not values of increase so they would not be possible.

I've checked out that many churches reduced one type of corruption in the early middleages, but lead to futher corruption in the later middleages, Is there a way to add scenario events that adjust the game values??

There are no events, currently.

Originally posted by Bane Star
Question: When I sell buildings I get a " you get 4 gold and 0 sheilds" message, When does the shields bonus happen and can I turn it off?

There is a checkbox on the tech page for "Enables Recycling," which is what causes shields to be gained from selling improvements. (This is set on the Recycling tech in standard rules.) If no techs have this set, you will never get shields.

Originally posted by Bane Star
...what other Mods are going to use fantasy graphics, I've gotten ahold of the latest 3D Max, and will me making some graphics as soon as I get home, gonna be working 3D hard to get my Mod out and about.

Balrog has a Fantasy Empires mod at CFC: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=44321

[self biased]

i'll work on some sample entries for those wonders. for ya. i hope you don't mind me making shtuff up though.

[statusperfect]

it the resource list final?

i could make you some icons

cheers

[Bane Star]

Resource List:

Ok, I've gotten all my notes, I'm thinking that the Metals should either be the 'ORE' type or the 'Different coloured Bars of metal' type... feel free to do one or the other, but try to keep consisteant for all...
Strategic Resources

MINERALS/METALS:
Coal, Bronze? Tin / Copper??, Copper, Silver, Gold, Iron, Clay, Saltpeter, Stone, Sulphur, Elementium (grey, green, blue), Octronium (dark green, Dark Blue, Black), Marble, Gems, Jewels, Zircon (gun metal grey/blue)

VEGETABLE
Plants, Wood, Reeds? -(for ink), what makes Paper... Paprus?, Fruit, Cane, Olives, Grapes, Wheat, Birch,

ANIMAL
Leather? - Hide based animal or Fur based animal?
Some Animal for Domestication, Horses, Big Cats, Big Wolves

OTHER
Magic, Special Terrain


Ok, Feel free to make up some graphics for these

[Azeem]

How about Mithril as a strategic resource needed for Mithril-armed troops and Mana Crystals for Mage units?

For animals, how about Pegasi for a Pegasus Rider or something along those lines?