Civ3 settings to increase realism

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Explorer579


Correct. Timber should be required to build ships and should be a strategic resource. Ancient Egypt imported timber from Phoenecia because they did not have enough of it.

I think I've posted this question enough times to know the answer is "NO", but is it possible SOMEHOW to give the "pine forest" base terrain different attributes than forest???

-- I'm raising the question here because the pine tree specifically was, historically, a strategic resource for the construction of masts; for a time, England was VERY dependent upon Norwegian pine for Rule Brittania.

As far as pre-masted ships -- the Egyptians didn't do much with shipping except along the Nile (Necho's alleged canal excepted) with many of their boats being made of papyrus reeds.

-Oz

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by bartdanr
That's my current pet peeve: lack of simulation of lines of supply and ancient communication lag. If we can mod this, great!

Alas, AFAIK can't be modded ...

However, for some future ideal Civ"N" --

I do think a simpler idea is to simply limit how far land units can travel from friendly cities before the invention of radio. Even Alex the Great went conquering from city to city -- and founded others where he needed them.

Different techs -- e.g., writing -- would extend the range.

This would also force more attention on local infrastructure like irrigation etc.

All in all, more historical (and simple to program!) methinks.

Best,

Oz

[Azeem]

What I've done is add new improvements, only these improvements aren't buildings, they're "edicts". They're built like any other city improvement, but they don't exist as buildings. The reason for that is because 1) I don't have any fancy paint program and I'm a dunce at any programming and 2) it gives a feeling that you're actually issuing an "edict" rather than just building something and hoping it works. "Edict" improvements have specific effects, but like all "edicts" in reality, they have their downsides as well.

For example my "Clean Air Standards" edict. It has -3 pollution (reduces pollution by 3), however, it costs 3 gold to maintain. This is just my "experimental" version, I might change it later.

BTW, I'm new here, so hello everyone.

[Nuclear Winter]

You guys thinking of great improvements!keep up the good work!

[Explorer579]

Impassable Mountains

I modified the mountain terrains so they are impassible. I played 4 games and it is very interesting and realistic. However, you have to make sure to edit the resources so mountains have no resources and allocate the mountain resources to hills. Otherwise, some civilizations will have strategic resources in mountains that cannot be accessed (you can't build roads to them because mountains are impassible). I learned this the hard way!

Summary: 1) make moutain impassible; 2) Take off strategic resources from mountains; 3) Add said strategic resources to hills.

I started working on a scenario called "Realistic"!

[Explorer579]

Real un-inhabitable deserts

I used the editor to make the deserts un-inhabitable. It worked great! Do you see big cities in the Sahara? No...

The end results: big chung of deserts are un-inhabited just like the real world. If there is a hill, you can settle it. However, I still miss the oasis tile of civ2.

Try it!

[Lewsir]

Here are my two cents on a wish-list for CIV IV, not really related to increased realisimm, just more interesting. And if anyone knows how to do anything like this by modding CIV III, I'd like to know about it!

With 24 civs in PTW we don't have enough specific abilities to make each civ unique any more. I would increase it to three abilities per civ and add several more to the current selection of six. Three possible one's I've come up with are:

Diplomatic - gains a bonus during diplomacy - other civs offer better deals, essentially. (Could give to the so-called diplomatic races - Japan, France, etc.)

Espionage civs - bonus for spy operations - cheaper, essentially, or more probability of success (US, Russia, etc.)

Sea exploration - gains bonuses for sea exploration, could be that boats are safe in seas (not oceans) from start of game (give to the great sea exploring nations (Vikings, English, Spanish)

As for the third one, I was reminded of this by your discussion of improving the sea-faring aspects of the game. I wonder how it would affect game balance if some civs start by being able to travers seas. This can help a LOT in some games.

Reactions?

[Azeem]

I would most definitely like to see "domestic policies" that can make or break you implemented in the game. That way it feels more like you're actually running a country. Thus I created my "edict" improvements.

[Explorer579]

Solving the railroad infinite move problem

Remember the unrealistic problem of limitless moves of land units in one turn after you build railroads? I figured out and tested a solution with the editor in order to increase realism! Here it is.

First, make railroads very difficult to build (e.g 50 turns). Next, create (or modify an existing unit) to make a train. A train requires coal and iron. It can move 6 tiles, which makes it 18 tiles through roads. It can transport 5 or more (it is up to you).

The end result: a game where workers can't build railroads fast enough, a train that can move foot units for 18 tiles on roads !

In my testing, I gave the train an attack of 0 and defense of 4 (immagine WWW I Turkish trains). The train could load and unload foot units. To do that, you have to check the unload in the Editor. You also have to check the "load only food units".

If you want to test it fast, go and modify the mobile armor unit and make it a train. Do not forget to uncheck the load button and check the unload button (just like a ship but a land-based transporter).

My test involved a partial game and not a full one. I will try it next but I wanted to report the idea. No more unlimited railroad moves for all units!

[AroSch]

Hmmh... if I use many workers the RR building is much faster done. Well, it is a step in the right direction! I required it would be possible to change the worker actions dependent on terrain...

[Tard]

Originally posted by Explorer579


Come to think of it, roads in civ3 generate trade and I never liked that. Most of our tax money goes to maintaining roads and highway. Roads should cost money for maintenance. But the sea is free transportation. In this aspect by discouraging building roads (associate a cost factor with it) you will promote sea transport and operations.

I never liked the idea that civ3 map ends up being full of roads and railroads. These should cost money not bring trade. People should plan their road locations very carefully so they are strategically located. Wars are won by controlling roads. By making roads expensive, civ3 would increase realism. Consequently, sea faring is encouraged because it is free!

That's absurd. I can't imagine any city saving money by having no roads to or from it. Your idea of reality is quite fantastic.

[Ozymandias]

Re: Solving the railroad infinite move problem

Originally posted by Explorer579
Remember the unrealistic problem of limitless moves of land units in one turn after you build railroads? I figured out and tested a solution with the editor in order to increase realism! Here it is.

Hmmm ... It's a potentially nice approach as it can also be used to simulate railroad-mobile guns (Big Bertha et al) as well as the armored trains which were so important from the Russian Civil War through WWII.

Abraxas,

Oz

[Explorer579]

Originally posted by ****


That's absurd. I can't imagine any city saving money by having no roads to or from it. Your idea of reality is quite fantastic.

Can you immagine the USA having 200 times as much highways as it does now? It is unrealistic. In civ3, every single tile ends up having roads, which make it impossible to play strategy games that focus on controlling highways and lines of supply.

The discussion was more focussed on simulating lines of supply than on what brings money. Yes, roads encourage commerce. But you can simulate that by building a bank that will double commerce.

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Explorer579


Can you immagine the USA having 200 times as much highways as it does now? It is unrealistic. In civ3, every single tile ends up having roads, which make it impossible to play strategy games that focus on controlling highways and lines of supply.

The discussion was more focussed on simulating lines of supply than on what brings money. Yes, roads encourage commerce. But you can simulate that by building a bank that will double commerce.

It's also a question of scale; IMHO Explorer's suggestions might work very well for an early 20th century Eurasian scenario/mod -- put the already extant rail and road networks in place, make the turns monthly or whatever, then go and build the Trans-Siberian railroad ...

... And bring on Big Bertha and the armored trains!

-Oz

[Explorer579]

Soldiers are people

Soldiers are people, therefore when we build units that require people, the population should decrease! This apply to most combat units, but not to units such as ships or airplanes.

I used the editor to decrease the population by one for soldier units. It worked! The game was much more realistic. The games was not much affected. I have to admit, I rarely play modern eras, and the effects of this change on late game is unknown. Anyway, anything that limits the number of units on the map is appreciated (I hate to have to control 300 units!)

By the way: Immagine the million of soldiers who died in WWII in Europe or the hundreds of thousands killed by Alexander the Great. These destroyed armys affected population growth (directly through death or indirectly through widows with no more children). Therefore decreasing the population by 1 when building a soldier unit increases the realism!

Try it and tell me what you think.