World War II scenario

[Constantine]

If I am able to do so, I will give the French and British tanks higher attack and defence than the panzer, but give the panzers a more hp's, or experience, to counter their disadvantage. There will be several stages of tank designs, for example, the Germans can start with basic panzers, and then upgrade to the Tiger tank. I will reasearch French, British, American, Italian, and Russian tanks to find what their tanks were like early in the war and later on as technology improved.

[Constantine]

Oh yeah, awsomedude, since you found those numbers interesting, here is a numerical comparison of some of the armed forces of the countries involed in WWII.
Tanks:
Germany-2445
Britain-310
France-3063
Belgium-10
Netherlands-1

Aircraft (fighter, bombers, etc.)
Germany-4020
Britain-1306
France-1368
Belgium-250
Netherlands-175

[awesomedude]

Originally posted by Constantine
If I am able to do so, I will give the French and British tanks higher attack and defence than the panzer, but give the panzers a more hp's, or experience, to counter their disadvantage. There will be several stages of tank designs, for example, the Germans can start with basic panzers, and then upgrade to the Tiger tank. I will reasearch French, British, American, Italian, and Russian tanks to find what their tanks were like early in the war and later on as technology improved.

Sounds good to me .

[awesomedude]

Originally posted by Constantine
Oh yeah, awsomedude, since you found those numbers interesting, here is a numerical comparison of some of the armed forces of the countries involed in WWII.
Tanks:
Germany-2445
Britain-310
France-3063
Belgium-10
Netherlands-1

Aircraft (fighter, bombers, etc.)
Germany-4020
Britain-1306
France-1368
Belgium-250
Netherlands-175

Thanks, that is interesting... What would your source be though? Could you post a link, if at all available? This information tells me nothing unless there is a date tagged to it. Would these be numbers from September 1939 or May 1940 or maybe something completely different?

[dunk]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
It would be good to have a worldwide ww2 game, not enough scenarios have been done with the Us/Japan pacific war, which is an interesting one.

Naval combat in Civ isn't all that great. Things like marines, paratroopers, submarines, and aerial combat aren't portrayed well in Civ. My opinion is they never have been.

It would be a great game to play. I had one for Civ II, but stopped playing it because it was so difficult to make any progress against the AI who knew where my ships were all the time.

[Frodo160]

Hi, I'm planning on doing a worldwide ww2 scenario. I'm probably going to have to create some custom civs, I'll definately want to use all 16 available civs in the game. Maybe we could get together to do that, Constantine. The list of civs that I would include is following:[list=1][*]Germany[*]USA[*]Russia[*]England[*]France[*]Japan[*]Spain - not sure yet...they did play quite a roll though[*]Italy - not sure if i should just include them into german territory[*]Yugoslavia - played quite a roll although militarily not very strong[*]China - played a roll at the end of the war against japan[*]Australia - not sure yet[*]Canada - also not sure yet[*]Norwegia - maybe make a country called northern states and include territory of Norwege, Sweden and Finland[*]Sweden - see above[*]Finnland - see above[*]Neutrals - make countries like Belgium, Switzerland and just the rest of the world neutrals...give them limited technology and maybe a limit of units if possible[/list=1]
of course this is just a sketch and not at all complete..any suggestions welcome!
There is also the problem...how would you make a whole new tech tree and make it so only certain countries can make certain units? We don't want the USA using Panther and Tiger tanks etc...any ideas?
Bye,
Michael

[Frodo160]

oh btw there is an awesome site if you are into modeling all those tanks and stuff: http://www.onwar.com/tanks/
it has pretty detailed descriptions on tanks used in ww2 and even better it has 4 view drawings of the tanks which is great to use as backdrop in e.g. 3ds max when modeling!

[Constantine]

Awsomedude, these numbers are from a book (Historical Atlas of the Third Reich), and are from May 1940.

[Constantine]

Frodo,
I think Australia could just be put under England, although my map so far is just the Northern hemisphere. In my case, I will probably give England the I.dian subcontinent as well. This might upset Canadians, but it could probably go under US control but I am not sure whether or not Canada declared war on the axis powers at the same time the US did. Mexico might be an iteresting one to add a a neutral power, where Germany can try to get an alliance with Mexico like they did in World War I. Italy should not be under Axis control, because the two countries never coordinated attacks, and this led to Italian losses in North Africa. Italy also refused to go on any major offenses against the Allied powers, and also botched their Greek invasion, which was discouraged by Germany. Sweden Denmark and Norway can be grouped together I think, but Sweden remained neutral, so it should be its own country. Finland Is also too distinct to be grouped with either Norway or Sweden. Although they were not technically allied with Germany, they were sided against the USSR because of the Soviet war against Finland. They were classified as an Axis beligerent because they were on the wrong side of the Soviet conflict. The Benelux could be a civ (Belgium, Netherlands, and Luxembourg).
As for civ specific units, those changes can easily be made in the editor under the units tab in the rules editor. The box that says "available to" makes this possible.

[Frodo160]

well, you wanna work together constantine? We could at least start making graphics until a new editor comes out. I also have some ideas on new technologies and city improvements...like the "himmelbett" radar system...which would give a defensive bonus against air attacks. I would also make a whole new tech tree if possible and make 4 different eras..the pre war era, start of the war, mid-war and post-war era of technology...in the post war era you could put things like the h-bomb, advanced V2 rockets (maybe with nuclear warheads, or chemical warheads?...kinda surprised the germans didn't think about that..) I would also use a world wide map (like marla singers world map) as the main map and maybe just make some scenarios with the europe map, in that case you would have to leave some civs out of the game....where it probably would be interesting just to simulate the european war theater...but not as the main map. I mean it wasn't called a world war without reason...

[Constantine]

Frodo,
A joint project would be great, maybe some others can join in as well. I am having trouble designing graphics, I don't have any sort of program for changing artwork or designing good units. The closest thing I have is just the paint program in the accessories, which wont open art files. What program can be used (and dowloaded somewhere) to create civ art files? A full map would be alright; however, Europe is a very small part of the map for its great importance in the war. maybe Europe could be tweaked to be a bot larger than it is on Marla's map. I'll work on this and put it up for downloading soon.

[Constantine]

The Marla Map now has a bigger Europe, removed barbarian huts and goodie huts, and some player start and resource changes. You'll notice that there is an odd placement of tundra in Romania. This is there to support the oil patch that served Germany's oil needs during the war. A problem is that the germans don't have rubber, but maybe they could get some from the African coast, but I don't recall if that was German occupied. I think that area was German colony that was lost in WWI. Britain can get its oil and rubber from its colonies. Lots of other resources will need to be shifted, but this depends on how the editor will work with trades. How do I post it? Under attach file I first tried to just attach the original file, but it doesn't work. How can I zip it, or whatever I need to do?

[Theodrik]

Originally posted by Constantine
*When did the French tanks slaughter the Panzers? When the Germans invaded France the French had a greater number of tanks (2445 German tanks vs. 3063 French tanks), but were unable to stop the German advances anywhere. This are several reasons for this: the French had their tanks at the Maginot line, their tanks were spread through their infantry devisions, the Stukas in the luftwaffe effectively destroyed French tanks, and the Panzers were a superior tank compared to those of the French.*

Ok, most of the French tanks such as the B35 had heavier armor and heavier guns (47mm) vs. the German (20mm & 37 mm). The big differance was the tactical doctrine of using flags and carrier pigeons for communications (the French) and radios ((the Germans.) The one time De Gaul got organized enough to launch a division sized counter-attack, he easily routed the German amor division, but was unable to follow up due to Germans in his rear, threatening his resupply.

*The Russians had very few tanks, so to start, they will have a very limited mechanized armed forces, and the Russian cities will have a poor level of production to insure that they can't produce overwhelming numbers of T-34's too early.*

No the Russians had LOTS of tanks at the start. Most of them were junk, thin armor, poor mobility, light caliber guns and machine guns and were far too slow. Tanks were thought of infantry support weapons, remember. In 1940 they did have about 100 T-34A's, but they were secret weapons and allowed out of their Ural training camps or even spoken about until 1942 when the 'C' model so surprized the Germans. The KV-1 was a good tank, but complicated and not nearly enough available. The KV-2 was a bastardization of a 152mm howitzer in a skyscraper of a turret. It was ment for use as a assault gun, but it put such NICE DENTS in those Germans that, well....

*I'm also not sure how well the British tanks did against the Germans, as the British didn't fight the Germans on land until late in the war (Dunkirk wasn't a good exhibition of the British armoury). *

The Brits had two types of tanks, the light 'cruiser' designs, thin armor, fairly fast, light guns (20mm and 2 pdr {39.5mm} and the heavier and slow Matildas armed with a 2 pdr. and 2 unmounted Bren light machineguns. With the exception of the Firefly (a 90mm AA gun in a Sherman), British tanks were slow, poorly armed but well protected. In 1940, unless the Germans were able to get flanking positions with their tanks and towed AT guns, they were forced to use 88mm AA guns to disable the Matildas.

*As for American tanks, they will need to be included, silly or not . Russian, British, German, and American tanks were the only really distinctive tank builders, so I will have to make different designs for these civs. Other nations will just have generic tanks (it would be silly to design a dutch tank, seeing as they had 1, that's right 1, tank at the start of the war).*

The French had some excellent designs in 1940, but no radios and inept leadership and obsolete tactics doomed them. The Itallian tanks were held in low regard BY THEIR CREWS as well as everyone else (the M13/47 was refered to as the Flaming Coffin) that even the Brits treated them as rolling targets.

[Frodo160]

hi, just use winzip to zip the files and add as an attachment...worked for me. as for rubber...i don't think that played that big a role in the war...or in general..yeah it was kinda important but not as important as e.g. oil and steel...i would make coal and iron the main "ingredient" of most units. i would make our own resources anyway..and change all the units. later on in the post war era you could maybe add chromium as a strategic resource..for advanced rockets and jets...just imagine if the war would have gone further than 1945..i'm sure the allies would have came up with their own plans for jets (they actually did) and probably the germans would have improved their me262...the main problem of the me262 was that the turbine was made of steel...which gave it a lifetime of only 10 hours. with chromium they could have made it last a lot longer which would have gave them a tremendous advantage...it was very rare though..
as for graphic programs...i would first design the units in 3dsmax and probalby work them over in adobe photoshop and then corrct the palette with the civ3editor thats somewhere here on the board...haven't done it yet i'll have to try that out...

[Frodo160]

oh btw...i would disable settlers in a ww2 scenario...after all its about conquering territory not about building new cities...and also i have been playing the marla world map with 16 civs, now almost the whole world is populated and there are hundreds of cities...the game gets reaaaallly slow. we don't have to simulate every small village (kuhdorf..hehe) in the game.