Unit Strengths by Era

[vmxa1]

Frankly I find it laughable that so many want to dream up a scheme where a unit is something special and then can win. It is just a formula, I do not have to sit here and pretend or wonder if the spearmen has learned some tactic. Since it is just a formula, it should not be subject to such a wide swing. The die should not allow one run where the spearmen beats the modern armour (can we agree it is not a WW1 tank) and if you refight it and have another action first, now the tank wins without a scratch. To me that is too much leeway. A damping effect needs to be in place, call it fire power. Now we can reduce the chance that the spearmen wins that battle. It does not have to be eliminated, but reduced to my seeing once every 5 games or so. I do not see how I can look at the pictorial respresentation of the tank and not conclude it is a ww2 tank. I do not want to be concerned with that warrior beating my elite calv, because it had some special skill. I say that should be so very rare and it is not now. I do not want to hear about the spearmen catching the calv in some hideout. It is a formula, it should have consitent results with a very small derivation.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Frankly I find it laughable that so many want to dream up a scheme where a unit is something special and then can win. It is just a formula, I do not have to sit here and pretend or wonder if the spearmen has learned some tactic. Since it is just a formula, it should not be subject to such a wide swing. The die should not allow one run where the spearmen beats the modern armour (can we agree it is not a WW1 tank) and if you refight it and have another action first, now the tank wins without a scratch.

Bombard.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Since it is just a formula, it should not be subject to such a wide swing. The die should not allow one run where the spearmen beats the modern armour (can we agree it is not a WW1 tank) and if you refight it and have another action first, now the tank wins without a scratch.

No more straights in poker;
No more craps in craps;
No more beating the odds at Thermopylae;
No more beating the odds at Agincourt;
No more uncertainty, no more history, no more fun!

If there is a hundred year storm every hundred years or so, and your tank gets stuck in the mud, but no, no more hundred year storms. Just reload and try again.

Banish the hundred year storms. Banish the heroes. Banish the fools. And banish everything that is not ordinary, or does not conform.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Zachriel
... Indeed, tanks tend to "run away" in the heat of battle and can be cut off and trapped by opposing infantry -- if the tank commander is not careful.

Infantry is not part of a tank unit as then the tanks would move at the speed of the slowest foot soldier.

Infantry CAN (but aren't necessarily) be part of a tank unit because the infantry are riding in trucks and some (old) 'armored personnel carriers' / halftracks. Or maybe they're doing something really wierd and using horses for transport.

Personally, I just treat it as a strategic game, where I don't have detailed knowledge of the composition of the units. I don't have these 'issues' of "a Spearman is only armed with spears."
If a tank unit gets 'unfairly' clobbered by a weak opponent, then that's what happened. I do not have information as to whether I should hang the tank unit commander or be in awe of the opponent. People who think Civ should give them that kind of satisfaction are indeed playing the wrong game.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Zachriel
No more straights in poker;
...
Banish the hundred year storms. Banish the heroes. Banish the fools. And banish everything that is not ordinary, or does not conform.

Tell him, Zachriel!

Those great unexpected victories (and defeats) is what makes it exciting (and even anxiety producing)! Makes even a blah game (because I'm so far ahead or so far behind) worth drudging through to the end because I have no idea what will happen dozens of turns from now. It's an endless source of history novel type entertainment.

[vmxa1]

Well I am sorry I must not have been very clear Zac. If you read what I said, it is not that I never except or expect a bad roll, only that it should more in line with expectations. Since I have played at legal poker clubs for 30 years, I have yet to see a 1 in 13 shot come in 8 times in a row (inside straight no joker), in fact I count on the fools that draw to them to make money as they not only do not have a winning play they fail to see that the times it works, it does not pay enough. So I am saying make it smoother with FP so it does not happen more than a reasonable amount of time.

[vmxa1]

Oh and thanks for the advice on bombard, who would of thought it (please).

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Well I am sorry I must not have been very clear Zac. If you read what I said, it is not that I never except or expect a bad roll, only that it should more in line with expectations. Since I have played at legal poker clubs for 30 years, I have yet to see a 1 in 13 shot come in 8 times in a row (inside straight no joker), in fact I count on the fools that draw to them to make money as they not only do not have a winning play they fail to see that the times it works, it does not pay enough. So I am saying make it smoother with FP so it does not happen more than a reasonable amount of time.

Yes, bet on the tank!

I have never seen someone fill eight inside straights in a row, nor a spearman beat eight straight tanks, either. A Veteran Tank v. Veteran Spearman, fortified, on a hill, in a city, across a river, is about the same as drawing to that inside straight. So expect to lose one every once in a while. A Veteran Tank v. a Veteran Spearman will win 99% of the time in the open. So expect to lose one once in a great while.

Civulator

http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html

[dovlvn]

Re: Unit Strengths by Era

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
What are your thoughts on the units, per era? Any favorite combined arms strategies or exploits? Any upgrade holes? How potent do you find the unique units versus their era peers?

Thanks.

Jeff

thanks for asking(im playing with the 1.16 patch) but unlike what the others think the "problems" with some of the units just show their historical accuracy. cavelry was unstoppable in the past (17 cen.) until more effective defences were created (such as automatic and half automatic rifles were created).so were tanks till the last years with the new anti tank missles units (by the way a good idea for unit ).borders are easy to cross because that is how most borders are (at least land borders). the problems empires have with these units are simply historical and its the player hard work (yeah not just easy tricks) to find partial solutions to these problems(you cant always beat them all).as for other units artillery is too weak (agree should be strenthened) a modern fortification such as land mines could be created as new city protification .for those who have to balance mod tanks how about combat helicopter (that could as in reality destroy ground units).well these are just some of my thoughts

[Wolfgod]

Submarines, Aegis, and Cruise Missiles

I'd like to surface and suggest an alternate plan for Cruise missiles - remove them from the game as a unit. Just increase the bombard range (but not strength) of the Nuke Sub and/or Aegis Cruiser. This way, we get cruise missile capability without having to build, transport, and otherwise mess with the little things.

Wolfgod.

[dovlvn]

oh and by the way if we are into misslies make the nukes just like in smac diplomatically more hazerdous.with such a low penalty for an a-war you'll have all mod warefare done by them (unlike the real world...) oh and make polution from a-bomb or nuck plant melt down harder or impossible to remove(like its in chernoble) to make it even less likely (or every mutliplayer when it'll come will end like on the beach)

[barefootbadass]

Originally posted by dovlvn
oh and by the way if we are into misslies make the nukes just like in smac diplomatically more hazerdous.with such a low penalty for an a-war you'll have all mod warefare done by them (unlike the real world...) oh and make polution from a-bomb or nuck plant melt down harder or impossible to remove(like its in chernoble) to make it even less likely (or every mutliplayer when it'll come will end like on the beach)

?? Whenever I use a nuke, everyone(including those who I have MPPs and good relations with) but the wimpy 1 city island state declares war on me immediately, it causes a load of pollution, destroys improvements, I think it has even changed terrain immediately, not to mention the changes that would occur from increased chance of global warming. I'm not even going to touch them unless I'm desperate in a game or someone else fires first.

Also, I have yet to see the ai use them first.

[JohnE]

Encomium, Bomber Question

Originally posted by Encomium
Bombers can't sink surface ships?? Did Sid miss Pearl Harbor?? How absurd. I changed all bomber values in the Editor to allow them to attack.

How did you accomplish this? I couldn't figure out how to do this in the editor.

[Windwalker]

Originally posted by barefootbadass


?? Whenever I use a nuke, everyone(including those who I have MPPs and good relations with) but the wimpy 1 city island state declares war on me immediately, it causes a load of pollution, destroys improvements, I think it has even changed terrain immediately, not to mention the changes that would occur from increased chance of global warming. I'm not even going to touch them unless I'm desperate in a game or someone else fires first.

Also, I have yet to see the ai use them first.

I've found that by the time nukes come into play, the game is pretty much decided... Just curious... Will a nuke kill a spaceship in the capitol city? If so, that would be a pretty good use for them...

- Windwalker

[Egyptian]

After playing many civilizations, I now always play Egypt. Their downfall is definately their UU. It is basically pointless. Unless I am engaged in a very early war, and without horsemen, I never build War Chariots. The lame UU puts me at a disadvantage in warfare, unless I am able to stay ahead of the AI in tech, which I am usually able to do. I think the war chariot should be 3/1/2 or 2/2/2. A better UU would make the Egyptians awesome.

Also, musketmen are pointless for the French. The Babs, Greeks, Aztecs and Iroquois have the best UUs.