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  • The Eliminator
    replied
    Civ 4 sucks - Civ 3 forevah!

    Leave a comment:


  • Zoid
    replied
    Or buy Civ 4

    Leave a comment:


  • DrSpike
    replied
    You could reinstall the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • xaace
    replied
    whenever i load saved items to my CIV3, it shows this window saying "DataIO operation System Error: TILE" I keep on clicking "OK" but it wouldnt go!

    Help please! i have been playing CIV3 for nearly 2 years now and i just encountered this error!
    =[

    anyone got a cure?..

    -xaace

    Leave a comment:


  • Kassian
    replied
    Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • vmxa1
    replied
    It is from Multi Player, you do not see it in Single Player.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kloreep
    replied
    It's been such a long time that I'm not sure you can get it to come up in single player. It should be there by default in multiplayer, or at least in PBEM; there should be a hotkey to get it to come up if it's not there.

    I believe it can also be collapsed, in which case you will only see your own line from the list. To uncollapse it from this form, click the arrow to the right of the list (which will be facing downwards in this case, unlike in this screenshot).

    Leave a comment:


  • Kassian
    replied
    Hi guys,

    i need some help.

    Whats the name of this Utility you can see on the screenshot below?

    I know its a scoreboard which the game displays, i know what it does but i dont know the name or if it is part of the original game (and if how i can activate it).

    I have searching some time now and cant find anything - please help.

    Thank you.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby Rowe
    replied
    Originally posted by vmxa1
    "Originally posted by Toby Rowe"

    "Once the AI has your territory map "it" (all AI nations) know exactly where all your troops are- If you get caught out by the AI doing a mass attack on one city: if they enter your territory but can't reach the city they want to attack before declaring war- weaken a more distant city by removing a unit or two, then watch the AI units take their turn. The AI once you trade the map knows your co-ordinates perfectly IMHO."

    Two things, I already told you the AI knows the tiles without a map, all of them. They may or may not trade thier maps with each other.
    I see many games where they do not and many where they do, it depends on what is going on.

    If they know your map, then they can change directions and head towards a weaker location. They always knew the locations strength, just not how to get to it.

    This does not in fact help them, it hurts them. If you are inclined to take advantage of the AI, you can simply move units around and have them chase their tail as you pick off units.

    It is known as the naked babe ploy.

    "On my second game, I can confirm that the AI does almost keep pace with you as the AI hands out freebies in tech's based upon your own level."

    I cannot address this as I have no idea of the level of the game and the overall settings. As I said it is not hard to out research the AI on medium levels like Monarch.

    Above that you may need a bit of time to get ahead, depending on the land you start with and the level.

    "This negates your entire point of playing the game as their isn't any reward for playing well! (why have 6 levels if the levels are based on cheating?)"

    What cheating are you talking about? You keep making this claim, but what are the specific? The only one you have demomstrated is the one I have already grant. They know the tile disposition.

    So they know if oil will be on this tile from the start of the game, ok big deal.

    "Patrician II, Europa Universalis I & II and Preatorians all have good AI. Civ 3 has cheats instead of AI."

    How does it cheat? You keep saying that, but never define it. I cannot speak to those games, but I doubt they sold as well or have active sites years later.

    "Put a sub in enemy territory, watch a warship come out a attack it. Build a Privateer, leave it unprotected in your waters, but within about 10-ish squares of a rival city- by magic a warship will turn up and attack it."

    Duh, they know all tiles disposition. So if you put a unit someplace, they all know it at all times. So they may elect to attack it. Again they will attack Privateers as they are hidden nationalities, IOW no DOW for attacking them.

    "Civ 3- the only game where all nations except yours had satellites in 1060 AD."

    Really, I have never seen this, not on this site or CFC. In fact it is very rare for the AI to get that far in tech, even on Sid.

    "I want credible AI, I've seen it in many games, and in many real world applications oddly enough.
    Losing an expensive court case for the right to make Civ 3 cost so much money that the game didn't get developed fully due to financial constraints- the blatent AI cheating (its easy to programme) was the result.
    The result ruined the reputation that Civ 2 continued, onwards all the others were poor."

    Firaxis was not in any law suit in the US, so I do not know what that is about. Micropose was in the suit a long time ago and they are long since gone.

    As far as I can tell, Civ3 is a far better game than Civ2 or any of the civ pretenders. I have never played another Civ2 game, since III came out and I had ranked Civ2 as my number 2 game prior to that time.

    You know little about programming, if you think it is easy to create a
    flawless AI for a very complex game like Civ. Civ2 was so much less complex than III, it is not even funy.

    Civ3 was hampered by being built on top of the base code for II. Civ4 started from scratch.

    "Fans of games might one day be listened to- I think the marketeers call them the "core market" in the car industry>"

    Fans are listened to and an attempt give them what they want is the plan. How sucessful they are at it is up to the public to determine. Since it sold millions of copies, I am guessing it was very good at it.

    "In Civ between 2 and 3 we just wanted better diplomacy and the ability to switch off certain aspects of the game that grew tedious. Civ 3 ignored all requests and actually increased the aspects most already felt tedious, as if to say, "**** you, you will enjoy this cake and eat it" Such arrogance for a seller is striking."

    This is just a tirate that is incorrect. Witness the sales numbers and the fact that another sequel was created.

    "As for Sid Meiyer? Once he had the midas touch, now it seems everything he touches turns to dust- over complex and boring- He forgot that games should be overall like films: entertaining, not a trial. I hope he doesn't remake Pirates!! for the PC or even my magic memory of that will be spoilt as well."

    I thought he already did remake Priates and it was acclaimed? I did not play either version, so I do not know.
    Hi mate (VmxaI).

    Computer rushes are exactly what any Civ game shouldn't be: this is the game that sporned games, along with Railway(sic) Tycoon and Pirates. They set the "bench-marks" (scribing steel in early mass production), bow used to mean another thing Apolyon!, and still does.........

    Pirates was remade for console: good, it's a fun game without violence, other than staged, the right type of game for our nippers.

    "What cheating are you talking about? You keep making this claim, but what are the specific? The only one you have demomstrated is the one I have already grant. They know the tile disposition"

    Thanks for granting it mate, and thanks for confirming that the AI even knows the disposition of other troops! I'm mortified.

    Look mate, good AI is designed to build in a "I've had a good evening, now I'll sleep". Designers have been "sailing close to the winds" on this since about 2000, I've noticed no intelligent development of AI since the year 1998. Whilst a Car company in Japan powers away with an intelligent Robot, gamers suffer the same computer rushes Colonisation did in 1994.

    I expect better by now.

    The name "Civilization" is a huge wealth creator for any company that owns it. Civ 3 is a poor game partly due to the legal reasons outlined above, once combined with company greed.

    Civ3 has much to offer, It's a shame the programmers never got to test it before. Pollution you can't ever rid and 60-80 repetitive commands (on average) per turn to deal with , without any recourse- soooo frustrating and ultimately "naff".
    No matter how Green you'd like to be as a player.
    Corruption?

    The worker who decided that, (through no fault of our own), would suffer the reptition of "clean pollution" sequences for ever within the game need not work in gaming ever again.

    Slang? Ok, I reversed it. (I prefer the latter, US Term), slang aside, lets keep the roots strong and without censorship for the benefit of both.

    Ps They 'aint "pant" in the UK, "pantaloons" no longer exist. Trousers and pants (as under-wear) is ok, the Yank firms selling stuff just don't get it yet! What the hell is a "pant" outside of running, or sex, or breathing?

    Respect the culture and language those firms wish to standarise, jeans are french, pants are.....



    Toby

    Hope this makes sense started this eon's ago,

    La de la.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby Rowe
    replied
    Originally posted by vmxa1


    I am not sure if you are serious on this one. I am pretty sure you know that it is used as a vulguarity, a slang word to reference female genitalia.
    That's the original meaning in anglo-saxon, nobody uses it in that way now and hasn't done so for a long time. "I feel a right **** or "he is a right **** is it's highest meaning.

    I can think of many other words to describe the above you referred to, but most are American-English: Starting with cat, although Fanny is another, but that is also the name for a woman in recent past times "Fanny adams" for cockney slang eg)

    Only one word that is wholly English in origin that means exactly the same meaning is the "c" word. How it was also used beyond that original meaning we'll never know- but to have such a word that originally meant one thing 2000 years ago and now means something else entirely might be stiffled progress- it's an awful word, I hate it, only ever derogatory in meaning.

    Apparently only about 100 real words from the inhabitants of England survived before we became Anglo-Saxons (Both North German tribes:- Engles and Saxons) and that word is one of them. Even "To" is Norse "Tu").

    I only wish I was richer in the 5 million words the OED has in it's full edition, alas time is too short- I do love my language I grew up and understood; I do get fed up with US bores who invent words when twenty others already existed and already meant exactly the same for 1000 years!!!

    I'm a working-class bloke and no written wordsmith, but verbally......

    Inventing words? Pah!!

    Toby

    Leave a comment:


  • vmxa1
    replied
    "Originally posted by Toby Rowe"

    "Once the AI has your territory map "it" (all AI nations) know exactly where all your troops are- If you get caught out by the AI doing a mass attack on one city: if they enter your territory but can't reach the city they want to attack before declaring war- weaken a more distant city by removing a unit or two, then watch the AI units take their turn. The AI once you trade the map knows your co-ordinates perfectly IMHO."

    Two things, I already told you the AI knows the tiles without a map, all of them. They may or may not trade thier maps with each other.
    I see many games where they do not and many where they do, it depends on what is going on.

    If they know your map, then they can change directions and head towards a weaker location. They always knew the locations strength, just not how to get to it.

    This does not in fact help them, it hurts them. If you are inclined to take advantage of the AI, you can simply move units around and have them chase their tail as you pick off units.

    It is known as the naked babe ploy.

    "On my second game, I can confirm that the AI does almost keep pace with you as the AI hands out freebies in tech's based upon your own level."

    I cannot address this as I have no idea of the level of the game and the overall settings. As I said it is not hard to out research the AI on medium levels like Monarch.

    Above that you may need a bit of time to get ahead, depending on the land you start with and the level.

    "This negates your entire point of playing the game as their isn't any reward for playing well! (why have 6 levels if the levels are based on cheating?)"

    What cheating are you talking about? You keep making this claim, but what are the specific? The only one you have demomstrated is the one I have already grant. They know the tile disposition.

    So they know if oil will be on this tile from the start of the game, ok big deal.

    "Patrician II, Europa Universalis I & II and Preatorians all have good AI. Civ 3 has cheats instead of AI."

    How does it cheat? You keep saying that, but never define it. I cannot speak to those games, but I doubt they sold as well or have active sites years later.

    "Put a sub in enemy territory, watch a warship come out a attack it. Build a Privateer, leave it unprotected in your waters, but within about 10-ish squares of a rival city- by magic a warship will turn up and attack it."

    Duh, they know all tiles disposition. So if you put a unit someplace, they all know it at all times. So they may elect to attack it. Again they will attack Privateers as they are hidden nationalities, IOW no DOW for attacking them.

    "Civ 3- the only game where all nations except yours had satellites in 1060 AD."

    Really, I have never seen this, not on this site or CFC. In fact it is very rare for the AI to get that far in tech, even on Sid.

    "I want credible AI, I've seen it in many games, and in many real world applications oddly enough.
    Losing an expensive court case for the right to make Civ 3 cost so much money that the game didn't get developed fully due to financial constraints- the blatent AI cheating (its easy to programme) was the result.
    The result ruined the reputation that Civ 2 continued, onwards all the others were poor."

    Firaxis was not in any law suit in the US, so I do not know what that is about. Micropose was in the suit a long time ago and they are long since gone.

    As far as I can tell, Civ3 is a far better game than Civ2 or any of the civ pretenders. I have never played another Civ2 game, since III came out and I had ranked Civ2 as my number 2 game prior to that time.

    You know little about programming, if you think it is easy to create a
    flawless AI for a very complex game like Civ. Civ2 was so much less complex than III, it is not even funy.

    Civ3 was hampered by being built on top of the base code for II. Civ4 started from scratch.

    "Fans of games might one day be listened to- I think the marketeers call them the "core market" in the car industry>"

    Fans are listened to and an attempt give them what they want is the plan. How sucessful they are at it is up to the public to determine. Since it sold millions of copies, I am guessing it was very good at it.

    "In Civ between 2 and 3 we just wanted better diplomacy and the ability to switch off certain aspects of the game that grew tedious. Civ 3 ignored all requests and actually increased the aspects most already felt tedious, as if to say, "**** you, you will enjoy this cake and eat it" Such arrogance for a seller is striking."

    This is just a tirate that is incorrect. Witness the sales numbers and the fact that another sequel was created.

    "As for Sid Meiyer? Once he had the midas touch, now it seems everything he touches turns to dust- over complex and boring- He forgot that games should be overall like films: entertaining, not a trial. I hope he doesn't remake Pirates!! for the PC or even my magic memory of that will be spoilt as well."

    I thought he already did remake Priates and it was acclaimed? I did not play either version, so I do not know.

    Leave a comment:


  • vmxa1
    replied
    Originally posted by Toby Rowe
    No idea why T-W-A-T has been banned, it's used mainly as a term of endearment nowadays, and not often in anger amongst us lower classes and is a Northern English word in origin, and is a lot older than me and the moderators as well: No wonder original English is dying on it's feet.

    Toby
    I am not sure if you are serious on this one. I am pretty sure you know that it is used as a vulguarity, a slang word to reference female genitalia.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrSpike
    replied
    Originally posted by Toby Rowe
    Hi mate,

    How'd you mean? At end of game you have a chronology if you can bear to wait for the loading times for it.
    Well it depends how anal you are I guess. I have a substantial number of saves from every Civ game I have ever played on a PC. You never know when you will need to check how many beakers you were producing using a given strat etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby Rowe
    replied
    No idea why T-W-A-T has been banned, it's used mainly as a term of endearment nowadays, and not often in anger amongst us lower classes and is a Northern English word in origin, and is a lot older than me and the moderators as well: No wonder original English is dying on it's feet.

    Toby

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby Rowe
    replied
    Originally posted by vmxa1
    "Originally posted by Toby Rowe"

    "As the AI is actually cheating throughout the game I always reload because of it: "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" to use an old saying."

    Define what you mean by cheating. Cheating is doing something outside of the rules and the only acknowledge cheat for the AI is that it knows the disposition of the tiles.

    "Unless you are prepared to accept rampant cheating because Infogrammes couldn't be bothered to programme a real AI into the game due to fiscal constraints following the court case, then just reload when 20 Roman cavalry turn up on your doorstep and attack without logic, rhymme or reason (Given that they are usually on the other side of the planet and you have no interaction with them)"

    Well I cannot address any court cases, but really there is no reason to expect much more than what is in the game in terms of intelligence.

    If they were to put more into it, no one would want to play it and it would take too long and be too expensive.

    The AI may not use any true logic about its plans, but most of the time one can anticipate what its next move will be.

    You need not have contact with a given civ for it to know about you. They can get contact and maps from other civs and head your way.

    They cannot know your map unless it was traded or scouted by one of the civs. They know a given tile in your land has x number of units and any resource, but not how to find it.

    I do not know what these rampant cheats you talk about are, they do not exist. In any event what will reloading the game do about it?

    "I reckon the Romans spend all their computer generated wealth on negotiating "right of passage" agreements- not. All AI nations have free movement in all others."

    The AI does not have to have an RoP to traverse the other civs land, neither do you. You both can run the risk of having a DOW.
    Most of the time they won't have an RoP and you can see it my the fact the the units have the same movement cost as you would on anothers land.

    What they can afford is more a function of the level of the game and the relative size the the civ. If you are playing at emperor or better they have a cost factor the makes things cheaper than it is for you.
    (Yes Monarch gets a bonus, but it is only 10%)

    Just as if you play at Chief or Warlord they pay more than you do for things. These bonus items are not cheats. They are clearly defined for each level in the game.

    They are handicaps meant to offset the better inteligence of most human players. Well not really intelligence, but more a matter of being able to adapt logically to the game.

    "To all fans of this game that also programme, please give us all an official list of the cheats "Infogrammes" uses.
    (I know all Sub's are seen by the others, I know once you give away your territory map all others know your troop locations, but most of all what basis is the technology cheat enacted? (and thus negating the entire point of trying to steam ahead in the technology field?)"

    The ability to see the map (disposition of tiles) is basically the only cheat. In C3C there is an unintended bug that lets the AI build great wonders with an MGL.

    Players have many exploits the AI cannot use.

    The AI cannot out research most players below deity after the start of the industrial age. It can at Sid, sometimes all the way through the game. The cost factor at Sid is 4, so they have a huge discount.

    As I said the AI knows your troop displacement at all times, regardless of any map. The map part is that if you have an empty town, it may not know how to get to it without a map, but it knows it is empty.

    You can see this if you are at war and they had seen a map and knew where all the tiles were and you had a town with a strong garrison, they would leave it alone.

    Move units out and watch them turn around and head for it. This was required to reduce the already massive routine to handle path finding. If you ever played an over size map you would appreciate this aspect.

    So in short the tech deal is mearly a function of any cost discount and the trading discount for AI to AI. It is offset by players doing better with thier land and taking land from the AI.

    That is until you get to the very highest level.

    "Civ 4 is mean't to be different, I assume the fact that it isn't ligging throughout play and thus makes it better and more interesting???"

    I do not understand the term "ligging", but it looks to me like Civ4 is different, but not better. I stopped playing after a month. It was fun, but did not hold my interest.

    This of course is subjective and means nothing. Anyway I did not respond in any attempt to bash or anything other than to assure you the game is not cheating in any meaningful way. It is very beatable without reloading.

    Ok, I will admit Sid is very hard to beat in any std maps and any pangea regardless of map size. I do beat it at contients and island maps, but it is not easy.
    Hi mate,

    Sid was good back in 1991, he's now turned his hand to a few things from the late 1990's and they've been found wanting in my opinion.

    The inventor of headlights didn't go on to invent halogen lamps afterall.

    Once the AI has your territory map "it" (all AI nations) know exactly where all your troops are- If you get caught out by the AI doing a mass attack on one city: if they enter your territory but can't reach the city they want to attack before declaring war- weaken a more distant city by removing a unit or two, then watch the AI units take their turn. The AI once you trade the map knows your co-ordinates perfectly IMHO.

    I'm currently playing a self-made map with 4 Islands isolated by chains of mountains forcing all shipping to my central island, so only 4 peoples exist on each- this was to test the AI cheating on technology. (passing info)

    On my second game, I can confirm that the AI does almost keep pace with you as the AI hands out freebies in tech's based upon your own level.

    This negates your entire point of playing the game as their isn't any reward for playing well! (why have 6 levels if the levels are based on cheating?)

    A good AI is based on good AI- Sid had it in "Colonization", the entire game was -4mb in size, as was Civ itself!

    Patrician II, Europa Universalis I & II and Preatorians all have good AI. Civ 3 has cheats instead of AI.

    Put a sub in enemy territory, watch a warship come out a attack it. Build a Privateer, leave it unprotected in your waters, but within about 10-ish squares of a rival city- by magic a warship will turn up and attack it.

    Civ 3- the only game where all nations except yours had satellites in 1060 AD.

    I want credible AI, I've seen it in many games, and in many real world applications oddly enough.
    Losing an expensive court case for the right to make Civ 3 cost so much money that the game didn't get developed fully due to financial constraints- the blatent AI cheating (its easy to programme) was the result.
    The result ruined the reputation that Civ 2 continued, onwards all the others were poor.

    Fans of games might one day be listened to- I think the marketeers call them the "core market" in the car industry>

    In Civ between 2 and 3 we just wanted better diplomacy and the ability to switch off certain aspects of the game that grew tedious. Civ 3 ignored all requests and actually increased the aspects most already felt tedious, as if to say, "**** you, you will enjoy this cake and eat it" Such arrogance for a seller is striking.

    As for Sid Meiyer? Once he had the midas touch, now it seems everything he touches turns to dust- over complex and boring- He forgot that games should be overall like films: entertaining, not a trial. I hope he doesn't remake Pirates!! for the PC or even my magic memory of that will be spoilt as well.

    A "ligger" is a sponger, a hanger-on, but it's almost old English now and I doubt it will survive my generation, just like other rich words like "narked" and "****", as English becomes standard US english instead, the richness and colour of it will give way to "snuck" not sneak, "embedded" not "attached", "hunkered down" not "lay low" and rout not route! Good grief, even Chuck Berry in '66 managed to say the word properly!

    Enough!

    Toby!

    Leave a comment:

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