A Strategic Analysis of the Special Units (LONG)

[player1]

First, on open, IT IS THE BEST.

On enemy territory when attcking cities, you should attack in waves of several M. W.
So he can't kill all of them.
Also some spearmen can always help.
Heling is no probem, you move 2 points, and you can get to border in one or two turns.
And mobility means quick mobilisation:
-If you have roads, your M.W. move 6 points, so you can transport M.W. from distant cities in no time.

It is especialy imprtant for HUGE maps.

In most cases more then 50% of defeated M.W. will survive.
That is huge cost-efficency bonus.
While enemy lost all defeated Swordsmen, more them of 50% of yours Survived.

While playing Iroq. I almost NEVER use Swordsmen.

Still Zulus Impi are best way against them (they move 2 points also, so no retrieting).

Only other Cavalry units & Impi are good defense against these guys.

[player1]

And there is no point of attacking Iroq. if you don't have mobile units.

---TIP---
One strategy for Zulus:
Use Impi in combnation with Horsemen (retreat + high defense).

[ElitePersian]

well healing CAN take pretty long, the city could be surrounded by mountains or forests and it'll take a couple turns to get out and a few turns to heal. While the mounted warrior is standing in the SAME SPOT and healing, he could get attacked by a 1 movement unit like an immortal

In my regent game, i was wiping out the iroquois with immortals. why? cause everytime they used their 3 attack on me, my defense would come through, he'd run away, and stand in the same spot to heal, and id attack him while he's healing - since he cant run while healing. If he did try to run away instead of healing, then he'd be no threat, since he'd be far away.
But then again, which UU is the best also depends on your playing style as well, so maybe the mounted warrior is the best for your playing style...but overall i think the immortal is the best.

The main reason why i say the immortals are the best UU is cause even knights, which come one whole era after them, dont have a higher attack rating, and require wayyy more shields, which proportionately, is simply not worth the extra shields it takes to build them. So immortals will last you a VERY VERY long time...basically, you gotta wait till cavalry becomes available before you stop using immortals as your main attacking unit.

[Grim Legacy]

Re: A Strategic Analysis of the Special Units (LONG)

Originally posted by RobC

Chinese Rider (4/3/3 – note the manual incorrectly states 2/2/2 and civ3.com still incorrectly states 4/4/3): Knight with an extra movement point (can also exert ‘zone of control’ to automatically attack passing enemy units, which normal knights cannot). Requires chivalry and sources of horses and iron. Gives you an extremely flexible and mobile unit in the early middle ages with a movement rating of 3 long before you can discover military tradition and the equally fast cavalry (and doesn’t require saltpeter). Make sure you have a good network of roads to use your Chinese Riders to maximum effect – quickly moving from one front to another to attack or defend against different enemies. Chinese Riders are also great for staging attacks deep into Indian territory to sack Delhi when your spies report that Ghandi is about to finish JS Bach’s Cathedral two turns before you do! The Chinese Rider can be very effective for players who are going for a non-military victory like winning to race to Alpha Centauri, since their extreme mobility means you can have a much smaller standing army to pay under republic or democratic governments, and you can devote that much more resources to science or building improvements.

Nice post.

Apart from the retreating behavior of units with a higher movement rate than their attacker, there is also the ZOC issue you speak of in the quote above. It is not true that the Chinese Rider has ZOC whereas Horseman or Knight doesn't. ZOC is exerted any time when a slower moving unit passes a faster unit. I've had my warriors take blows from Horsemen.

What *is* a bonus of the extra movement point of the Rider is that it is now able to retreat and exert ZOC over enemy units that have a movement rate of 2 (very common), instead of only over units of MR 1.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[player1]

I don't see how on open could Immortal beat M. W.
Still, when attacking cities you'll need lot of them (attacking in waves).
So when one is injured, next comes, etc..
Similar to Aztec startegies.

M.W. are also a good counter-attack unit, when defending (attack, heal in barracks, etc)

Defeated Immortal will not heal, it will die!

I always though that Immortals are awesome, but they are pretty vunerable on open (especially agains M. W.)

On maps with lost of forsets & hills, Imoortals are better.
Depending on terrenian these two UU are probably two best (offensive) UU in ancient age.

M.W. speed give also "a mobilisation advantage".
I mean, your units come, much quicklier on front, because of quicker movment (especialy important for huge empires).

P.S.
AI isn't good tactican.
(at least not to good)

[player1]

Both Horsemen & Mounted Warror have ZOC, but Knight doesn't.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by player1
Both Horsemen & Mounted Warror have ZOC, but Knight doesn't.

Isn't that a bug then?

[Dis]

I feel it is necessary to post a bad thing about my beloved aztecs.

As has been noted earlier, an early special unit produces an early golden age. In my first game this did not happen, because I did not war early. But my last game I went to war with horseman technology. I produced a golden age while in despotism .

but I still don't think the french are all that great. It is important to peak either in the beginning or middle. The aztecs are great for early. And yes the early golden age ensured I got the pyramids plus plenty of war production. I did have about 8 to 10 cities when this happened. So I did get a significant bonus to my war machine.

[Grumbold]

I'm currently a big fan of the Romans. Not because their UU is the best in town, but because of the combination of all their abilities. The legion pops up just late enough in the early game to ensure that you are reasonably well established (hopefully at the expense of one of your nearest neighbours before they got spearmen) to have a profitable Golden Age. Their defensive bonus helps them bull their way through to an objective, especially in rough terrain where any faster moving opponents lose their advantage.

Their multiple role as best attacker and best defender ensures they get plenty of combat experience, which is exactly what you want to have to ensure that early leader shows up as your prize for choosing a Militaristic Civ, and means you don't have to be moving different units to hold what you capture with your assault force. Hold back on building your first legion until you are preapred, then a quick win against a soft target will allow you to go into a Golden legionary building phase. Swamp your target(s) of choice until they are destroyed or you have swallowed as much territory as you can profitably hold. Being a Commercial Civ, that's quite a lot Make sure you turn your leader into an army to secure the ability to build ther Heroic Epic and Military Academy. Now its time to sit back, trade all those resources you just captured, be friendly to everyone and wait until your size and corruption damping advantages really begin to be felt in the industrial age.

The only drawback to the Roman Legionary IMO is its poor (non-existent?) upgrade path. Perhaps it is because of its versatile nature as a foot unit that it cannot migrate to the next generation of units. Migrating to musketman would lower its offensive potential and the superior offensive units are all cavalry based. I normally end up disbanding them in new starter towns to make the rush buying of early improvements much cheaper - along with any excess hordes of foreign workers.

[ElitePersian]

well the reason that my immortals wiped out the MW was because i was on a forest or something usually, and immortals have good defense naturally. And every time the MW would retreat, the computer would move him away for some reason - im guessing cause he was healing or something, so i just attacked it in its red zone wiping them all out one by one.
But you're right, which unit is better depends on play style, and on the map.

but these two are definately the best for their time.

[player1]

Exactly!

[vmxa1]

In my last game as Persia I had a lot of Immortals whack Mounted Horsesmen. They rarely won a battle and mostly retreated. It did not help them. 4/2/1 beat 3/1/2 with regularity if all else is even, that is reg or vet for both, terrain bonus the same. Most of the time I faced the Mounts and they where regulars, while my troops are all vets as I built barracks as soon as I can (I am a conquering type). When Mounts attack a city they are in real trouble and they are very weak as defenders of cities. When you are going against warriors or single units then they can shine. Then retreat has value as you will not be persued. Against humans your retreat will fail as they will have a fresh persuit unit.

[RobC]

Originally posted by Grim Legacy

quote:
Originally posted by player1
Both Horsemen & Mounted Warror have ZOC, but Knight doesn't.

Isn't that a bug then?

Maybe not...after all, when the lookouts spot a passing enemy, horsemen just grab their spears/lances and ride off, mounted warriors grab their bows and quivers and ride off, and cavalry/cossacks grab their rifles and ride off, while Sir Lancelot's squires are still trying to strap that huge breastplate onto him and set up the pulley you need to get him up onto his horse.

[rugbyprop3]

upgrading units

With unique units you can upgrade them into then next step on the evolutionary chain, but earlier units can not be upgraded into elite units.

The one civ where this comes into play is the french. Pikeman CAN NOT be upgraded into Musketeers. On the otherhand Musketeers CAN be upgraded into rifleman.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by RobC


Maybe not...after all, when the lookouts spot a passing enemy, horsemen just grab their spears/lances and ride off, mounted warriors grab their bows and quivers and ride off, and cavalry/cossacks grab their rifles and ride off, while Sir Lancelot's squires are still trying to strap that huge breastplate onto him and set up the pulley you need to get him up onto his horse.

LOL ok then. This reasoning is good enough.