MAP: Real World Map

[CharlotteCivver]

Originally posted by Sparky
I made a version 1.01 of your map. If you're interested, I removed horses from the Americas, slightly refined the Great Lakes and Britain (I mean very slightly!), put more oil in Venezuela, and added starting locations for all the Civs I have always thought should be in (namely, the Turks, Mongols, Spanish, Arabs, Vikings, and Pheonicians).

Removed the horses from America? What about the wild horses at Chincateague, VA? Didn't everybody learn about that in elementary school?

[Selanne]

Version 2.2 is here. See the first post for a summary.

[Dreifels]

Still some mistakes:
1) at Ankara transit between Black Sea and Middle Sea must be possible by ship 150,60
2) 126,42 is there a ship transit possible at Channel? I didn't test it but it looks that is isn't possible.
3) Spain and France in history had 95% forest
4) 131,43 must be a coal recource (one of biggest brown coal recource of world there is) (France + Germany do have much more coal than England) + 130,46 black coal
5) 138,42 also big browncoal recource is, and beside that also an uranium recource

6) and again and again: Salpeter wasn't a strategic recource for Gun Powder, but as the game this bug has and you can reserarch until atom and never get better units than sword and bow if you don't have salpeter, you have to balance it by giving one salpeter to every starting point.
ALL must have that recource if they have researched the tech for gun powder, all other will make the game unbalanced.

[Dreifels]

Originally posted by CharlotteCivver

Removed the horses from America? What about the wild horses at Chincateague, VA? Didn't everybody learn about that in elementary school?

ALL horses being in America had come from the European in early time. (the wild ones were run away horses and those coming after then)
In early history the american continent didn't have any horse.

The other question is - and I believe it will be right if america has horses, too - that such biologic recources should be not restricted to their early original point for ever. The game gives no way to multiplicate such recourcec which I have to trade only once.

[Sparky]

Again, great job. Any changes from here on out would be pretty minor. I like how you released two versions in the download, for those who want an easier game or more realisic terrain. I also agree with you about the Inca Empire -- I mean, come on! you don't omit an entire continent that had an advanced civilization.

[HansZarkow]

This map is magnificent!

The only thing I'd like would be a more woody one, I think it was mentioned earlier, this would delay the inevitable dominance of North America and Europe for their ressources. Also I think Canada is even today forest covered and not a plain.

[Selanne]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Driefels I'll look at resources in Germany. And maybe a third map with more forest in North America, Europe and China.

Bye the way I live in Canada. It is mostly forest, and apart from the great plains the rockies the developed east and northern tundra, it is on my map as well.

All this work and someone has to go and post resource maps that tempt me to redo it all.

Driefels as to your questions:

1. I go back and forth on whether I should put in the Bosphorus by Istanbul. I wish they retained the old system where you could pass by land and sea.

2. You can pass through the English Channel. The Grassland just makes it look funny.

3., 4 and 5, I'll look at changing.

6. I understand you can find it almost anywhere. But if it's supposed to be strategic, at least in the game itself, I've limited it to locations I found in an Encyclopedia. Hopefully the lack of Salt Peter will encourage trade and/or war.

Anymore votes re location of horses (historically old world) and rubber (historically new world)?

Sparky, I was also tempted to replace the Zulus with the Songhai/Mali empire. Or Maybe Ethiopia.

[Sparky]

Interesting you mentioned the songai and ethiopia. I had already put in starting locations for the ghana/mali/songai on west Africa, and for the Ethiopians as well. Honestly, I think Sid should have picked one of those empires instead of the Zulus waaay back in the days of Civ1. I'm debating whether to add the Conganese or keep them as a series of goodie huts.

I also added starting locations for the Arabs, Turks (who were actually supposed to be in Civ 1 but got cut at the last minute!), Mongols, Phoenicians, and Spanish.

I've often wondered whether to include the Dutch (but darn it, their period of dominance was really only the 17th century) and the Austrians (although they're practically just a large faction of the Germans. The Germans have never been unified until recently.) The Hebrews are tempting, too.

[Badtz Maru]

Maybe you could rename saltpeter to sulfur and find out where that can be found to have a strategic resource for gunpowder. Saltpeter is easy to produce, but I think sulfur needs to be mined, and is also an ingredient for primitive gunpowder.

[Dreifels]

Originally posted by Selanne

6. I understand you can find it almost anywhere. But if it's supposed to be strategic, at least in the game itself, I've limited it to locations I found in an Encyclopedia. Hopefully the lack of Salt Peter will encourage trade and/or war.

Anymore votes re location of horses (historically old world) and rubber (historically new world)?

You have to watch that you don't generate a general problem of unbalanced games with the map.

- If you restrict Salpeter you may research up to nuclear weapons but never get more than sword. Such the game makes stupid and frustrates a lot.
- Rubber isn't available in cold climate
- Horses are alt last not a real recource as you have to trade it 1* only and then you have your own. But such isn't possible in the game. So you can't restrict the places for horses to those 2 areas where they are coming from (means America never gets a horse)
- In reality coal was the surrogate for oil in the 1st world war. As the game doesn't allow to set offshore oil recources you should place some oil positions at the coast there, i.e. England, Norway, Venezuela.
- Make 2 different maps, one similar to 5000 BC and one similar to today, as the terrain had changed very much within 800 AC and 1700 AC (forest was needed for lot of ships, i.e. Spain, England, France, Italy, Greek, Turkey, Russia, so they today have less forest than as that early time.

[Selanne]

Thanks for the info Dreifels.

As for Saltpeter, I guess like in the games I have played, you have to conquer land with saltpeter, if you don't have it and can't trade for it. First game I played (random map) I didn't have access to horses, oil or saltpeter. I had to go "acquire" it all. I find that fun. However I am considering redistribution. I'll see how others feel. Or as Badzt Maru suggested I could rename the resource. On a side note Aluminum is available almost everywhere in the world as well.

Scotland, Norway and Venezuela all have oil on my maps (or should unless they got erased somehow).

I am considering a third version with heavier forest cover.

Sparky has suggested extra starting points. Does anyone else like this idea?

Darryl

[ismail cem]

tech-three

Has anyone discovered a patch for the tech-tree?
I know that any change made to the 'rules' of the game spoils the tech-tree, thus making selanne's map unplayable.

[Selanne]

I don't know why you say "unplayable". It's playable, you just can't access the tech tree properly. Frankly I don't consider this a handi-cap.

[laurentius]

Your map is just WONDERFUL!

But I would suggest some minor corrections:
Finland and Baltic are wet grasslands, originally forests allover. Finland has to have furs, the whole finnish economy depended on furs and timber around 3000 BC-1500 AD.

great work!

[ismail cem]

selanne, i meant that there is no way to control technological advance in any direction we please, which makes the game, not the map, unplayable.
That was why I asked if there was any known patch for this problem.
There is no reason not to appreciate your contribution.