BIG problems with the editor

[incie]

I've been having a hard time deciding if I love or hate this game, am leaning heavily towards hate now...

Finished my first regular game this morning (lost when I built the UN and decided to hold an election -- everyone voted Ghandi) and decided I'd edit out the Corruption, since it makes expansion difficult and I think it's a lame concept anyway. Also wanted to change the color of the Greeks.

So I make these edits and load up the game only to discover that the tech tree is completely screwey now. The pictures aren't in the right places, so the arrows showing what leads to what don't work correctly, and even worse, I can't click any of the advances, which makes it impossible to choose what I want to research next.

It also makes it impossible to click a long term goal and have the advances leading up to that goal be queue'd.

Basically, the only way to choose what advance I want is to choose from the little advisor popup that asks you what you want to research next. Which is ok, except that you only get that pop up once, so if you change your mind later or want to check the Civilopedia before you choose, you're screwed and stuck with whatever your advisor decides to go for.

As a test, I fired up the editor again, did NOT change the government corruption...all I changed was the color of the Greeks. Started a new game...same problem.

Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Re: BIG problems with the editor

Originally posted by incie
I've been having a hard time deciding if I love or hate this game, am leaning heavily towards hate now...

Finished my first regular game this morning (lost when I built the UN and decided to hold an election -- everyone voted Ghandi) and decided I'd edit out the Corruption, since it makes expansion difficult and I think it's a lame concept anyway. Also wanted to change the color of the Greeks.

So I make these edits and load up the game only to discover that the tech tree is completely screwey now. The pictures aren't in the right places, so the arrows showing what leads to what don't work correctly, and even worse, I can't click any of the advances, which makes it impossible to choose what I want to research next.

It also makes it impossible to click a long term goal and have the advances leading up to that goal be queue'd.

Basically, the only way to choose what advance I want is to choose from the little advisor popup that asks you what you want to research next. Which is ok, except that you only get that pop up once, so if you change your mind later or want to check the Civilopedia before you choose, you're screwed and stuck with whatever your advisor decides to go for.

As a test, I fired up the editor again, did NOT change the government corruption...all I changed was the color of the Greeks. Started a new game...same problem.

Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?

The Science advisor was developed to work with the default rules, and in fact several of the graphical elements of that screen are keyed with the assumption that default rules are in place.

Whenever you change the default rules of the game, the game has to use a "dynamic" system to draw the arrows to the tech boxes, because you can basically use the editor to specify new x and y coordinates for every tech in the game, and the pre-drawn arrows would no longer match up. But this should not affect your ability to click on any technology that you could click on using the default rules. I just ran a quick test and verified that this is the case.

BTW, I hope you followed my advice and at least backed up your civ3mod.bic file before you started editing.

Dan

[incie]

I'm confused, but seemed to have solved the problem this way:

What I had been doing was making the edits and then saving as a scenario, and using the Load Scenario option on the main menu to start the game. Doing this led to me being unable to select advances on the science Advisors screen.

After reading your reply I decided to edit the civ3mod.bic file directly, saved, loaded up a game, and things seem to work fine.

I'm wondering now, is the problem with saving it as a scenario a bug in the editor or just a result of my not having any experience with the editor? It's actually a moot point for me, since I have no problems saving it to the civ3mod.bic file, but figure if it's a bug it's something you folks should know about.

Thanks for your help. Back to loving it...for now

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by incie
I'm confused, but seemed to have solved the problem this way:

What I had been doing was making the edits and then saving as a scenario, and using the Load Scenario option on the main menu to start the game. Doing this led to me being unable to select advances on the science Advisors screen.

After reading your reply I decided to edit the civ3mod.bic file directly, saved, loaded up a game, and things seem to work fine.

I'm wondering now, is the problem with saving it as a scenario a bug in the editor or just a result of my not having any experience with the editor? It's actually a moot point for me, since I have no problems saving it to the civ3mod.bic file, but figure if it's a bug it's something you folks should know about.

Thanks for your help. Back to loving it...for now

Just to clarify: I was actually recommending that you *not* mess with Civ3mod.bic. If you do, I STRONGLY recommend that you make a backup first and put it in a safe place. Otherwise, you're tinkering with the "brains" of the single-player game experience. If you screw up and unbalance something, it can get really ugly.

As far as the scenario loading issue you're describing goes, I tried it a couple of times just to be sure, but this should not happen (i.e., not being able to select techs when loading a custom scenario) The problem is probably due to changes you made somewhere else in the editor.

This is why altering civ3mod.bic would have worked fine -- because the settings were all in the default and thus behaved as you would expect them to. It's relatively easy to accidentally change something in the editor and then find yourself unable to build things you think you should be able to, and so on.

I'd advise you to start with a clean scenario file, make some changes, and try again loading it in via the Load scenario command. If you still have problems clicking on techs, e-mail me the BIC file you created and I'll take a look.


Dan

[Scott_S]

Hiya Dan,

First, let me say that I'm truly impressed with the fact that we have access to people who actually worked with the game.

It's rare in this industry to have any contact with a company, let alone interpersonal contact via a community that is helpful.

This is EXACTLY the same problem I am experiencing, and I'm only making text changes, although in further tests, it seems that WHATEVER change I make to ANY rule in any capacity (i.e. change the name of the Roman leader from Caesar to Sid Cesar) the graphical Science Advisor interface COMPLETELY ceases to function.

I've not touched the tech tree editor in capacity or altered that set of rules in any manner.

In fact, if I make only a single edit of ANYTHING, the moment I save the scenario with the default rules off, the science advisor locks up totally.

More over, when I settle and it asks me to choose a tech, if I don't choose it then, but instead have it 'show me the big picture', it literally locks the game. From there. since I've not chosen a tech, it won't let me switch advisors before choosing a technology to research, and since it won't let me choose one from that screen, I have to Windows key out and close the game from the taskbar.

This seems to happen with ANY random generated maps and ANY time the default rules are in turned 'off'

For instance, if I chose to make a unit move one space instead of two, or even change the name of one of the Barbarian tribes that appear, it locks the science advisor screen as indicated above.

Please see my thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31528

You can recreate this situation simply by:

1) Going into the editor, turning off the default rules.

2) Changing, for example, making the number of content citizens to 5 under Chieftan instead of 4,

3) Generating a random map.

4) Saving the file and loading a the newly made scenario.

It'll prompt you, naturally, that 'the rules have been altered.'

Build a Civ, wait for the Science advisor to pop-up, pick a tech, and then click on the icon for advisors from the main screen.

Left or right clicking no longer works in the science advisor screen, even though I've made no edits whatsoever to it.

In effect, I've generated a random map with just some basic rule changes.

Please let me know if this is indeed the same result you get, and how I can get around this, or perhaps it's a bug.

Best Regards,

Scott

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Scott_S
Hiya Dan,

First, let me say that I'm truly impressed with the fact that we have access to people who actually worked with the game.

It's rare in this industry to have any contact with a company, let alone interpersonal contact via a community that is helpful.

This is EXACTLY the same problem I am experiencing, and I'm only making text changes, although in further tests, it seems that WHATEVER change I make to ANY rule in any capacity (i.e. change the name of the Roman leader from Caesar to Sid Cesar) the graphical Science Advisor interface COMPLETELY ceases to function.

I've not touched the tech tree editor in capacity or altered that set of rules in any manner.

In fact, if I make only a single edit of ANYTHING, the moment I save the scenario with the default rules off, the science advisor locks up totally.

More over, when I settle and it asks me to choose a tech, if I don't choose it then, but instead have it 'show me the big picture', it literally locks the game. From there. since I've not chosen a tech, it won't let me switch advisors before choosing a technology to research, and since it won't let me choose one from that screen, I have to Windows key out and close the game from the taskbar.

This seems to happen with ANY random generated maps and ANY time the default rules are in turned 'off'

For instance, if I chose to make a unit move one space instead of two, or even change the name of one of the Barbarian tribes that appear, it locks the science advisor screen as indicated above.

Please see my thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31528

You can recreate this situation simply by:

1) Going into the editor, turning off the default rules.

2) Changing, for example, making the number of content citizens to 5 under Chieftan instead of 4,

3) Generating a random map.

4) Saving the file and loading a the newly made scenario.

It'll prompt you, naturally, that 'the rules have been altered.'

Build a Civ, wait for the Science advisor to pop-up, pick a tech, and then click on the icon for advisors from the main screen.

Left or right clicking no longer works in the science advisor screen, even though I've made no edits whatsoever to it.

In effect, I've generated a random map with just some basic rule changes.

Please let me know if this is indeed the same result you get, and how I can get around this, or perhaps it's a bug.

Best Regards,

Scott

Scott,

I'll take a look at that tomorrow. Thanks for the explicit description, it'll help to figure out what's going on.

Dan

[Grandpa Troll]

I just want to say I really like the editor aand I would need some more time to learn more about it, but so far so good and so simple to run.

I like being able to change the various starting advances,units and attributes of all.

I again thank all whom had a hand, and thanks for making scenario making EASY for a 42 year old wanna-B-Mod maker!!

This is definetly well worth the game purchase!!


In Jesus Name

Brother Bruce

[Scott_S]

Hiya Dan,

My GOD! An almost INSTANT response!

This is truly amazing, and let me add this, I understand the feeling.

I'm the original founder of Honesty.com, the company that provides the official hit counters and various services to the eBay auction site.

At Honesty, and during my tenure as its CEO, customer service and customer contact was at the core of our philosophy.

That mentality helped us become the largest auction service provider (with over 600,000 users in 2000, when we merged with Andale, Inc.) and helped lead us to create the deal with eBay to become the official service (around 80% of eBay's items have an 'Honesty counter' at the bottom.. it's the little green number that counts the visitors if you've ever browsed on eBay) of that site.

In my 20+ years online, I have >NEVER< encounted a company that responded instantly to a message from a customer outside of Honesty.

You just became the first.

I am so totally and utterly mindblown over the fact that I was able to get a reply, let alone one so quickly, well that says more to me about the dedication and quality of the Firaxis team than anything else ever could.

Amazing! Simply amazing! It is >>OBVIOUS<< that you folks care about the end user.

I TRULY thank you for your reply and will look forward to what you can find.

Best Regards,

Scott

[genghisvick]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Just to clarify: I was actually recommending that you *not* mess with Civ3mod.bic. If you do, I STRONGLY recommend that you make a backup first and put it in a safe place. Otherwise, you're tinkering with the "brains" of the single-player game experience. If you screw up and unbalance something, it can get really ugly.

As far as the scenario loading issue you're describing goes, I tried it a couple of times just to be sure, but this should not happen (i.e., not being able to select techs when loading a custom scenario) The problem is probably due to changes you made somewhere else in the editor.

This is why altering civ3mod.bic would have worked fine -- because the settings were all in the default and thus behaved as you would expect them to. It's relatively easy to accidentally change something in the editor and then find yourself unable to build things you think you should be able to, and so on.

I'd advise you to start with a clean scenario file, make some changes, and try again loading it in via the Load scenario command. If you still have problems clicking on techs, e-mail me the BIC file you created and I'll take a look.


Dan

Hey Dan are guys gonna be releasing a patch that fixes the current editors shortcomings?

[Trachmir]

Actually you don't even have to change anything to make the tech tree go wonky... just uncheck USE DEFAULT RULES and save... It's really annoying!

[Scott_S]

Hiya Dan,

Ran across another non-mentioned glitch/bug/not exactly sure.

It seems that mid way through my latest game, I'm not able to establish embasies any longer.

At the development of writing, I was indeed able to establish them with the civs that I had already made contact, but once I traded for contact with the Romans (via the Aztecs), first, Caesar's picture did NOT appear on the diplomacy screen. I was able to make contact with him only by clicking on the 'Trade Advisor' screen, where it states that I'm unable to currently trade with the Romans, simply because I've no roads to that Civ.

Whereas I wasn't looking to create a trade route, clicking on the name initiates contact. I cannot, however, do so by clicking on either the Foreign advisor. His portrait does not show up at all.

I AM able initiate contact and trade various things, but naturally I can make no treaties, for example.

Also, I can contact him by clicking on the 'D' in the right hand 'unit status box' on the main screen.

Similarly, the Americans, whom I discovered on my own by walking over to them will not let me establish an embassy?

However, in this case, the portrait does indeed show up.

Perhaps I've missed something, but I thought that all that was necessary was to have the proper amount of money, contact with the civilization and the necessity to click on the little star.

Is there something I need to do to establish embassies with cultures I discover later in the game (i.e. other than the ones I knew the moment I discovered writing?)

If not, please let me know, and also, let me know if sending you my .sav file will help.

I'm glad to assist in ANY way that I can if, indeed, this is a bug.

Best Regards,

Scott


(I have no roads to any of the other civs, including the ones which I do have an embassy.)


== UPDATE ==

I can, indeed, establish an embassy with the aforementioned Civs via the Ctrl-E command.)

[Scott_S]

And once again....

Hiya Dan,

I have some seriously bizzare things happening in this game. Perhaps you do want to take a look at the .sav file.

I just finished the Pyramids in my game (along with many other wonders) and I went through all my cities. It seems as though MOST of them now have a granary, a handful (at least two that I can recall) don't, nor will it let me 'sell' the granary that 'exists' as an icon on the city improvements list in the city screen.

And yes, they're all on one continent. In fact, one is VERY close to my capital (it's the Colossus city in my game) and that's where I first noticed it.

I haven't seen these 'bugs', oddities posted anywhere else, so I figure I'd just post them here in this thread simply because that way it doesn't create a massive number of places to look.

Actually, I have a wee bit of experience debugging things since I was the 'last pass guy' at Honesty when it came to our product.

Or, maybe not debugging itself, but finding various little strange things.

Nine times out of ten, I'd find a way to 'break it.'

Anyway, this one is semi-serious since, well, if you can't grow your cities with granaries via the Pyramids, it's obviously quite tedious and turn-costly to build them all by hand.

Nevertheless, I await your response, and if there is ANY way I can assist you, I'm serious, just let me know.

This is truly a CLASSIC "Sid" game, and I've had them all since day one (Including the early MPS games) and this Civ 3 is indeed up to ABOVE par and ABOVE my expectations (which were indeed VERY high.)

Hence, I've not slept since I initially posted my editor thread.

Best Regards,

Scott

== UPDATE ==

Now this is getting bizzare, since after I reloaded, one of the cities that didn't have a granary, now, well, does. However, one of my cities is still missing, and yes, it's relatively close to my capital, all on the same land mass, and connected completely to my empire via roads and culture.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Scott,

Do me a flavor and just zip that scenario up and e-mail it to me at webmaster@firaxis.com. I'll do some investigating today to see what I can find. I'll try to check in later but I've been having really poor luck getting anything except "Too Busy" messages from Apolyton recently so pardon me in advance if I can't get back to you today.


Thanks,

Dan

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Scott,

I followed the steps you listed and couldn't reproduce the bug. I was able to click on any tech in the era I was currently in, and that tech was set up in the research queue.

Go ahead and send me a scenario file that exhibits this problem on your machine and I'll see what I can find.


Also, regarding your granary issue: building the pyramids should give you a free granary in every city that doesn't have one and should eliminate the granary support cost in any city that has already built one. But you should only be able to sell granaries that existed before you built the Pyramids (since the other granaries aren't real physical buildings, but rather represent the effects of the Pyramid wonder). If you aren't getting granaries in every city , that is a bug and one I can look into.


Dan

[RTodd]

Dan/Scott:

I was able to reproduce this problem as well. I set up "Oil" as a needed supply for Nuclear subs (in addition to Uranium), set 'Precision Bombing' as something the Cruise Missile could do, and saved the file (I unchecked 'default rules' in the editor and made sure 'no map' was checked). Started up a game and loaded the "scenario". Experienced the same weirdness with the Science Advisor as Scott stated. This problem is not present when editing the default civ3 BIC file directly (which I backed up first )

Todd