Map Idea: Classical Geography Errors

[Andrew1999]

All the complaints about the maps that come with the game (and they are pretty terrible) gave me a neat idea for an alternate Earth map--Classic Geography Errors.

I've got an art book with some beautiful ancient and Renaissance maps, but everything outside the Mediterranean basin is pretty messed up. So what if I made a Civ III map based on some of these cartographic blunders...

Ideas so far:
California is an island
Scandinavia is an island
Northwest Passage through Canada
Terra Incognita Australis (super-Australia reaching to Tierra del Fuego)

Any other ideas?

[Mercator]

That would be nice, but go for such an old map all the way. That is, don´t make a completely accurate map with a few of those "glitches" but base your entire world map on, say, a 16th century world map.
I think having a contemporary map would add to the atmosphere of a scenario... If civ3 will ever have decent scenarios
I´ve been thinking about maps like this for civ2, including parchment/paper-like terrains and all, but it hasn´t really come off the ground yet.

[hardjoy]

I'm not so sure a "historical" map will add to the historical illusion, a scen is building up with players. The trouble is, every time the player spots an "error", he will go "hey! booo! that's wrong!!" -and get out of the wonderful illusion you're trying to make. It's all about player expectations. If you make it clear, that they're in an unknown land, where people have found a new continent, it'll be ok. But if you say, this scen is about Columbus voyage to America, people will expect to find America when going west. Not some obscure island, which doesn't "resemble" America at all.

I think its a bit difficult to show the "intent" of such "geographical flaws", although I somewhat like the idea. I tried myself to make a reverse north/south map of Scandinavia for my viking scen, in order to show off the viking perspective. Actually I got the idea from looking at contemporary maps from the 15th century, which was made upside down. It was great for a while, because you didn't "know" the map like you would a normal map of the area. But eventually, I felt confused, because it didn't have that "go west to england" kind of response. The conception of earthly geography got completely messed up. I guess what I'm saying, is it's not without a cost.

[Mercator]

I have to agree with that. That´s one reason I didn´t do it yet, I´m just more into making maps as accurate as possible. But if you change the terrain to resemble a paper map itself that will get the point across better (together with proper info for the users).

[hardjoy]

It'd probably look very cool with parchment like graphics ! I think thats a very cool idea. I never thought of that. I'd like to have a go at that one sometime, if its ok? -It's still your idea! (and if I find the time)

-I kinda like messing around with the terrain graphics -its beginning to be a real hobby of mine...

I'm not so fond of the "real" mapmaking, myself, however. Basically I find it is a pain in the butt, especially those oversized maps. Its so hard to find accurate maps, that convert seamlessly to Civ2 maps, keeping the things like river charts and islands correct. I tried it several times, but it always seem to involve such incredible work anyway, that it's almost like making everything from scratch. You do get the best coastlines this way, however.

[Mercator]

Originally posted by hardjoy
It'd probably look very cool with parchment like graphics ! I think thats a very cool idea. I never thought of that. I'd like to have a go at that one sometime, if its ok? -It's still your idea! (and if I find the time)

Sure, I didn´t patent this or something...
And I´m not the first to think of this either. There have been previous "discussions" about this a long time ago.

I'm not so fond of the "real" mapmaking, myself, however. Basically I find it is a pain in the butt, especially those oversized maps. Its so hard to find accurate maps, that convert seamlessly to Civ2 maps, keeping the things like river charts and islands correct. I tried it several times, but it always seem to involve such incredible work anyway, that it's almost like making everything from scratch. You do get the best coastlines this way, however.

Yep, lots of editing to do. Is the civ3 map editor any easier than the civ2 one on this?

So any civ3 world maps that appear within the next week are either crap (from an accuracy point of view) or made by a dedicated 24/7 civer/mapmaker.

[hardjoy]

Sorry to disappoint you, Mercator! I don't have the game just yet... Still have to wait till the 16th at least -I'm still wondering if I should buy it now or wait till they update the editor and add multiplayer. So I don't know if the terrains will be as easy to change as they were in Civ2.

Otherwise I'll make a mod for Civ2. It still is a great game, and if it takes some time b4 decent Civ3 scens are out, it'll have a life for some time still.

[hardjoy]

BTW, your mapedit util for Civ2 has made my life so much easier on more than one occasion! Without it, even such conversions as I was talking about, wasn't even possible with Civ2! I sort of forgot that, as I've become so accustomed to using that wonderful little program of yours!

[Mercator]

I´m just so desperate! You´re European too...

And thanks for the MapEdit compliments. Just one question, what do you really use it for?

[hardjoy]

It's extremely useful! Basically I use the conversion and "placing" bits mostly. But the other features like the preview and ressource bits, are useful too.

Usually, I find a decent accurate realworld map, which seems convertable. Then I convert it to bmp, and change the size and the palette. After some basic Paintshop Pro editing, placing large masses of terrain in the right places, I save, and load in with the Mapeditor, and convert to Civ2 map. I might find I need to expand the limits of the map, and then I go back and expand or cut off borders where needed, so the map covers exactly what I need, no more no less. Then load in again with the civ2 mapeditor and do all the dirty work.

Without it, I'd often had to go with some inappropriate map sizes, because I didn't feel like starting all over again. MapEdit really saved my life with the oversized African map I made for my upcoming Emin Pasha scenario. Still I had a lot of work doing it, but without the resizing/converting bits, I never would have got what I wanted.

[Mercator]

I see... Great!

[jsw363]

Since there's no flat map option, guess you can't sail off the end of the world anymore

[hardjoy]

Impassable terrains might do the trick... Although it's not as perfect as truly flat maps.