Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How to win on Deity Builder-style, step-by-step.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How to win on Deity Builder-style, step-by-step.

    HOW TO WIN ON DEITY BUILDER-STYLE, STEP-BY-STEP.

    This article is thought for C3C v 1.22

    This article is devised to help deity Noobs or deity wannabes to win confidently on this level as builders. I take for granted you already know basic concepts such as settler-factories, REXing, Prebuilds, trading reputation, AI attitude, Golden Age etc … if you don’t, look them up in the strategy articles section or in the War Academy at CFC.


    On Deity the AI has a series of “play balancing” bonuses from the start, such as:

    - They start with an extra settler (their biggest advantage IMHO)
    - with 8 defensive units
    - with 4 offensive units
    - two workers
    - they have a discount of 40% building rate over the human player.
    - two-turn anarchy
    - additional free support per city
    - AI-AI trade bonus of 170

    Is it humanly possible to overcome these bonuses ? Sure it is. The AI remains as dum no matter the difficulty level.

    Winning as a Warmonger on Deity is a more daunting task and requires a player to be very skilled and know all the nooks and crannies of the game inside-out. So we’ll leave that type of play style to them.

    However, winning Deity focusing as a builder is very feasable and only a matter of practice. Anyone can attain it. I’ll explain you how:

    I. Victory type sought: UNs vote or SS victory.

    II. The World's Settings:

    1. You’ll choose huge pangaea (not archipiélago) worlds with 60% water (the minimum). (The larger the world the more you'll profit from it being a builder player)
    2. No barbarians/ no huts to pop. (benefits more the deity AI than you)
    3. AI agressiveness to the maximum (profit becoming a war scavenger)
    4. 15 randomly generated AI civs. (the more the merrier)
    5. Accelerated production off.
    6. Random seed preserved.
    7. All victory conditions enabled (except the Wonder Victory)

    III. Picking the right civ:

    The civ must be chosen carefully.

    A. TRAITS:

    I would advise for it to have the agricultural trait . This trait is the most powerful in C3C much as the industrious was back in PtW. Growth is –almost- everything, as highlighted in many articles.

    As a second trait you will want it to be either: scientific, commercial or industrious.

    You are not interested in playing an Expansionist civ because it’s a pangaea world, you’re bound to meet them anyway sending your warriors/king units as scouts. Plus there are no huts to pop which always seem to be more helpful for the AI. This trait is only useful during the REXing phase and you’re looking for a trait that’ll be useful through out the whole game.

    You are not interested in a Seafaring civ because this is not an archipiélago map, it’s pangaea we are talking of. Forget the Lighthouse.

    You are not interested in the Religious trait because you are only going to change governments once in the game: from despotism to republic. Plus you are not aiming for a culture victory with this strat. A cultural vic on deity is more difficult and isn't the point of this article.

    This is a builder-style game, so obviously the Military trait won't be suitable. Perhaps back in PtW when GMLs could rush GWs I would've changed my mind. But in C3C only SGLs can rush GWs and it's the scientific trait that'll be useful.

    You want to be Scientific: because you may build cheap libraries and above all you'll want your free tech when entering a new era so you can shop it around. You even have a 5% chance of spawning a SGL being the first to discover a tech. Useful trait all game round, probably the best second trait for this strat besides agri.

    You want to be Commercial: because at Deity you’ll need all the gold you can to trade. It’s useful through-out all the game.

    You may want to be Industrious: to build things at a faster rate. Again, a useful trait all game through.

    Ideal civs for this builder strat:

    Sumerians, Mayans, Iroquois, Netherlands, Greeks(*) and any other agri civ.

    (*)= o.k. they are not agri but they are good to play with. They’ll prove an additional challenge.

    B. For it’s UUs:

    On Emperor or below you’re probably more interested in an offensive unit whereas in deity a defensive one is more suitable (from a builder standpoint). The very cheap and early enkidu warrior, the swiss-mercenary, the greek hoplite all suit their purpose, being the MW the exception as a fast offensive UU.

    However, I must point out that the AI rates you military according to your offensive power. So the AI will rate more highly two warriors with a combined attack of 2 (one each) than a regular spearman with attack 1. So a builder player should really be building offensive units and not deffensive ones so as to keep the aggressive AI at bay. That’s why your military adviser says you are weak in comparison to other civs because it doesn’t count as much your huge defensive army, amongst other issues.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Step-by-step guide to win on Deity builder-style:


    1. In the Ancient Age you’ll build two or three warriors as scouts to explore the map and meet other civs. You may want to build two canoes or galleys to go on exploring on opposite directions as well (less advisable). You want to have met as many civs as possible once you build the GL. With Mass Regicide enabled you may use your 7 king units to explore the map (they have 2 movement points) so there is no need for building warriors or scouts to explore. It is important to start off somewhere in the middle of the map and not in some lousy corner so you may come across asap with as many AI civs as you can. Ideally you should have met 11 civs or more out of 15 once the GL has been completed. You will set the science slider to zero from turn one and raise the luxury bar to 30-40% to make gold and allow fast growth, have no entertainers. You will barter your two initial starting techs with the other AI civs for gold and techs with your aims set on trading for Alphabet so as to beeline to Literature. Once you trade for Alphabet, you will raise the science slider to the minimum of 10-20% so as to discover Writing in 50 turns or less. No use raising the science slider above that. Once you discover Writing or trade for it, you will research for Literature at full throttle even reducing the luxury slider to zero or 10%, even researching at a loss of gpt. You will not trade Writing or Literature, If necessary you go to war so as not to give in.
    2. Starting as an Agri civ you’ll start on a river and next to some food bonus (wheat, sugar, banana, cows). If you happen to start on a floodplain it may be not necessary to build a granary in that city. You’ll want two or three cities with granaries. You’ll build a granary in your capital. Your capital will act as a settler-factory pumping out settlers every 4 turns. The second city will build only warriors and the third only workers. I call it the magic triangle.
    3. You must start to REX asap. You’ll build warriors (no spearmen), workers and settlers. You ought to have two workers for every city you have on average. You will not escort your settlers. It doesn’t matter If some cities are ungarrisoned. The AI is also busy expanding rapidly and covering all the land still available. Pump out those settlers !!
    4. You ought to have between 10-14 cities once the REXing phase is over. It’s ok if you can’t build the FP, no sweat. Even if you build it in the Industrial Age after some war you can still win. You can win this game with ten cities. Don't worry if your city tiles are overlapping with one another, it's only normal at this level of gameplay. Forget the idea of having a 21 radii tile city perfectly used and no overlapping; that only spells for disaster at Deity. Get used to living in cramped quarters. Real estate is overpriced !.
    5. Being the AI at its most aggressive setting frequent wars will be unleashed. You just make sure to stay out of them and have settlers ready for when the time comes to fill in the gaps of razed cities. You are taking advantage of the AI way of acting doing the opposite and cashing in on it whether it be wars, derided techs etc…
    6. On your best/most productive city, normally the capital where the palace is, you’ll mine most tiles, if you have a cow or two that’d be great, mine them. Start roading the food bonus tile, then mine it, then move to the river tiles to get that extra gold bonus the sooner the better. Whip settlers if required.
    7. You’ll trace a bee-line to Literature. Your wonder city should reach size 10 at least 8 turns before you discover Literature and size 12 when building it. You cannot do a prebuild in the capital city (masonry required) and it’s not required either, so don’t worry use as a prebuild a temple or whatever. Join workers to the wonder city if necessary to bring it to size 12 asap. It's an exciting race against time to complete this essential Great Wonder. You should be producing like 20-23 shields per turn. Micromanage.
    8. Once you discover Literature put the science slider to zero and have it like that until you learn Education.
    9. You will build the Great Library. It takes some practice to do it, so be sure you build it. Don’t conquer it, this is a builder-style game. You’ll do the bashing later on in the game, believe me. This is the only Ancient Age wonder you’ll waste your precious time and resources in. It's well-worth it. If you miss it start a new game all over again until you build it. This strategy pivots on the GL.
    10. You’ll trade your way through to Writing once the techs start pouring in. You’ll build embassies with ALL civs, with your immediate neighbours first. You’ll sign RoP with ALL of them. You give techs, gold, luxuries whatever is reasonably necessary in exchange. You do this to avoid unwanted wars. The AI will not attack you, normally, with RoP signed providing you keep up your good reputation and stay true to your deals. If you can trade workers from other civs, just do it, the earlier on you do it the more they’ll get slowed down in building infrastructure and it'll hurt them, specially if they have the Industrious trait.
    11.You will trade techs for lump sum or gpt If you can. Don’t forget to haggle always.Gpt is your aim so as to make them broke and slow their fast-paced research rate. The more gold they trade you, the less they'll have for research. It will be YOU who will be doing all the research from the late Middle Ages onwards and cashing in on it.
    12.You will acquire all the luxuries you can. Being pangaea you don’t have to wait until Navigation to get all of them, from the early Middle Ages you ought to have access to all of them. Your luxury slider should be at zero typically all along the game, except in the initial REXing phase to avoid entertainers and in the odd war or so. Build granaries, libraries, marketplaces ...
    13.You must change governments to Republic as soon as it is available and stick to it untill you win the game.
    14.You shouldn't start any wars untill you have Military Tradition. You will give into all AI demands, be it gold, maps or techs. Yeah, yeah it’s crap but learn how to kneel first.
    15. In the Middle Ages trade your free tech around if you're Scientific (it will normally be Feudalism; gift in, if neccessary, other scientific AIs into the new era so as to trade for their free techs). It's difficult to stop the wonder cascade in the Middle Ages, forget it. Once you learn Education, and the GL becomes obsolete, you will trigger your Golden Age with your UU the over the next turns If possible. It is paramount to not leave many turns (20-40 approx) between the obsolescence of the GL and triggering your GA, so plan ahead for this moment. I always choose some close or not far away feable neighbour. I send a galley with two UUs, perch them atop a mountain (for defensive bonus) and force them to declare war on me. You will have amassed by now at least twenty horses which you’ll upgrade to cavalry. This is a defensive war, don’t play offensive and try to sue for peace asap. You’ll make that other civ declare war on you making them mad and asking them to withdraw their troops from your land. Be sure your RoP agreement has finished with that target civ beforehand, don’t renew it planning for your GA-war. You will sign a military alliance (MA) with all civs against your targeted foe. You cannot risk a war with more than one civ. Be sure to spawn some GML so as to start the Military Academy. You may use later the Armies as prebuilds or as a deterrent to other aggressive civs. Don’t sign peace until twenty turns have gone by so as not to get a reputation hit with the other civs you've signed the MA. Remember you are aiming for a diplo win or SS, your reputation should remain flawless until the UNs vote if you choose this victory type.
    16. Use your GA to build banks (universities should be rushed if you are scientific), factories etc… don’t waste your time building military units, you’ll have plenty of time for that later on. Using your GA and combining it with all the gold you will have saved up with your zero research due to the GL will enable you to research at a maximum rate now of 90-100%. I advise reading DaveMcW's article on AI's Favorite Techs to learn what monopoly techs you should be researching and trading for in your game.
    17. You ought to have saved a fair amount of gold already. Start researching at the max possible (90-100%) techs that the AI will disregard first in the Middle Ages such as in the top end of the tech-tree: Printing Press, Banking, Economy then swap over to the lower end of the tech tree: Chemistry, Metallurgy, Military Tradition and trade for them. You may even start a prebuild on Adam Smith’s. Trade these Monopoly Techs to all and be sure you get gpt. You want to make them broke. With all the gold you’ve saved up during the effects of the GL and with the added boost of your GA you ought to be racing ahead technologically. Make sure they learn Banking asap (even gifting it to ALL AIs) so they build banks asap and have all their gold funneled to you through smart trading of techs. By the end of the Middle Ages you ought to have 10.000 gold. Until the end of the Middle ages you've been playing catch up from behind building up your infrastructure (mines, roads, libraries, universities, banks, harbors ...).
    18. In the Industrial Age your free tech will normally be Nationalism or Medicine. Gift in, if neccessary, other scientific AIs into the new era so as to trade for their free techs. Entering the Industial Age is the key moment in this strategy because you will leach economically on the other leading AI civs for your free tech for as much as 330 gpt and you must set the science slider to 100% even If at a loss of gpt (which I doubt If you've heeded my instructions properly). It should be you brokering techs to the top and most advanced AI civs making at least 1000 gpt even at 100% research rate. Go for Steam Power, Industrialisation, Medicine, Sanitation (build or rush hospitals in every city, you are Agri don’t forget it), Electricity, Scientific Method. If you have the Scientific trait you might pop a SGL (5% chance) when discovering Scientific Method. You’ll have a prebuild on ToE. Build it and choose as your two free techs Atomic Theory and Electronics. You’ll also have a prebuild for Hoovers Dam. You may not have realised it yet, but the game is pretty much over now at this stage once you build this Great Wonder. Make sure they learn Corporation asap (even gifting it to all AIs) so they can all build Stock Exchanges asap and have all their gold funneled to you through smart trading of techs. You’ll start a well-timed prebuild aiming for the United Nations. Trade all these techs around assuring you will complete the great wonders. You might be tempted to steal techs once you trade for Espionage, but If you are using this builder-strategy properly there's just no need to resort to stealing techs; besides, it will be you whose the most technologically advanced civ in the game so there'll be hardly any techs at all to steal anyways ! You ought to have now at least 20.000 gold at the end of the Industrial Age (I've reached well over 100 k by this stage). It’s fairly normal to strike deals for up to as much as 575 gpt. I've had the Persians paying me, in two different tech gpt deals, as much as 1.000 gpt. Be careful, the AI might go broke (specially if it’s a Warmonger civ such as the Zulus or Aztecs) and declare you war to stop paying all together. You ought to be raking in approx 2.000 gpt from your cities and anywhere between 1.000 and 2.000 gpt from the AI civs in your game. Your science rate will be at 90-100% and your luxury slider at zero (if you have 8 luxs) or 10%. Even having the science slider at 100% you ought to be raking in approx 1.400 gpt from other civs, truly impressive. You can easily change your game from Builder to Warmonger at this stage with Motorized Transportation (tanks) If you wish albeit you'll risk losing the UNs vote. You ought to build all Industrial Great Wonders prebuilding with your palace.
    19. You enter the Modern Age. Very rarely do they give you Computers as your free tech being scientific. It will normally be either Ecology, Fission or Rocketry. Gift a scientific civ into the Modern Age if neccesary so as to trade their free tech. Shop it around with all the others. You must build the UNs. Research the lower end of the tech tree: Computers (have a prebuild for SETI), Miniaturisation (prebuild for Internet), then go for whatever suits you. Steal techs safely for 5.500 gold. The AIs will pay dearly in such a huge map for a Modern Age tech. I’ve been paid as much as 47.500 gold for Computers lump sum (it has a wonder associated to it). Be sure you haven’t finished the wonder when you shop it around because that’ll diminish its face value. Avoid at all costs the Wonder Cascade of Manhattan Proyect, SETI, UN, Internet. Delay if neccesary by one turn the trade so as to be sure they don’t build the wonder before you. A human player should have no trouble building all Industrial and Modern Age wonders with the help of well-timed prebuilds at Deity.
    20. Choose between an SS or Diplomatic victory. Typically, you ought to finish the game around the XIV-XV centuries for a diplo win and XVI or later for a SS victory in a huge pangaea deity map. You should end up with, at least, 40.000 gold stashed in your bank account (even If you've been cash-rushing units and improvements). It's not surprising to reach well over 100k in the Modern Era. It's Builder Power !
    ----------------------------------

    Takes you around 15-30 hours to complete.

    Main point is that you do tech-surf all the time and then cash in on it.

    It's a sort of broker strategy (War Academy) coupled in with triggering you GA at the right time.

    Drakan
    Last edited by Drakan; January 12, 2007, 09:08.
    If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
    Ailing Civilization Strategy
    How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
    M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

  • #2
    This looks like it would work, that’s what I do at Emperor. I haven’t had too much success with it on Demi-God at normal aggression though. Step 5 is the trouble. It’s hard to stay out of wars with the AI and after I set science to zero there is very little to do with the money until I can switch to Republic. The AI extorts it almost as fast as I can save it.
    Do you believe in Evil? The Nefarious Mr. Butts
    The continuing saga of The Five Nations
    A seductress, an evil priest, a young woman and The Barbarian King

    Comment


    • #3
      Deity Builder Strategy Conclusions



      a. Build GL: research to zero and stash gold for future research at a loss if necessary (you will have saved up money for this moment).
      b. GL expired. Triger your GA straight away that same turn in Republic so as to continue with you competitive advantage granted by the GL. Build banks, universities and Adam Smith. Put research slab at a maximum , even at loss, you´ll have money saved up for this.
      c. Tech bartering all the time with the other civs . Very few wars and only for luxuries, strategical resources and to trigger your GA. Researched techs derided by othr AI's civs. Raking in massive amounts of gold from AI civs. Waited 20 turns until cashflow was liberated to strike a new deal for another tech. Didn't trade If they had no gpt to offer or luxuries.
      d. Fueled wars between AI civs by signing a military alliance against my foe/s. Build Hoover Dam.
      e. End up with 40-80 cities. Flawless reputation and polite attitude by almost everyone except those AIs you fought, of course.

      The point was to always surge ahead techwise and sell them the monopoly techs I discovered hampering their own research by means of signing huge gpt deals. The GL gives you a competitive advantage over the AI for a while. When the GL expires you trigger your GA asap so as to capitalise on that gap or turn-advantage granted by the GL, thus gripping on to it and even boosting your competitive edge over the AI thouroughout the rest of the game. It's like two successive launch pads or rocket boosts, GL first and then GA, you're using, one right after the other.

      The GL acts as a "sort of" Golden Age really when you put the science slider to zero. You get all the cash plus all the techs (no double shield output however). So the bottomline is that it's as If you were using two Golden Ages one right after the other, first the GL and when it becomes obsolete with Education you trigger your GA that same turn with your UU. So you are actually playing as If you had two consecutive Golden Ages, like having two rocket boosts, you burn the first one and only then use the second one, GL first and then your GA, so as to overcome Deity's dire AIs bonuses.

      Sample DEITY game Gilgamesh of Sumeria: American version C3C v 1.22


      Initial save:



      Ancient Age (turn before completing the GL) 590 B.C.:



      Early Middle Ages 50 A.D.:



      Industrial Age (with Golden Age triggered by UU) 870 A.D.:



      Modern Age (turn before diplo victory, prior vote was inconclusive) 1465 A.D.:



      Sample SID game Builder-style: American version C3C v 1.22 just scroll downwards to post 15 for the storyline and the saves.



      -----------------------------------------------------------------------


      @1885: It seems you are not following step number 10. You must sign RoP with every civ on the map . If you keep a "clean" track record they will not declare on you just as long as you have the RoP signed.

      Check the saves, you'll see that I had RoP signed with all of them asap. This is the key that will ensure you no aggression from the AI.

      It should be always the human who is in control of the game, deciding when he wants/needs a war or not that fulfills his goals.
      Last edited by Drakan; December 7, 2005, 15:30.
      If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
      Ailing Civilization Strategy
      How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
      M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmm. You have no concern about AI pouncing on you with ROP? Maybe your "clean" record makes you safe.

        I guess that you could always do the "block the border with captured workers" ploy, too.

        Interesting plan. Not that dissimilar from my basic playstyle except that I rarely find myself in a good position for GL.

        Also, I'm kind of a random civ, random start sort of a player.

        Comment


        • #5
          RoP rapes are still a possiblitiy, but that does not mean they will happen. You are not guaranteed to not be violated.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've tried this in more than eight deity huge pangea games with random 15 civs and none ever did a RoP rape.

            What has happened to me, as highlighted in point 18, is that a warmongering AI has gone broke due to a massive army upkeep and has broken our tech deal by means of declaring me war with a RoP agreement in force.

            But only because they went bust economically, they had no other way out of our deal other than wait twenty turns for the deal to cancel or else declare war on me.
            If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
            Ailing Civilization Strategy
            How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
            M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

            Comment


            • #7
              I still think the way of the sword is the only sure way.
              Be stronger than they are and they won't attack you for sure, no matter the aggression level.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ljube, even being much stronger is not sure bet. It is a good insulator, but that is all. I am sure everyone has had war declared when they were much stronger than the civ declaring.

                Not just by your terms, but by the F3 terms. I have had 1 city civs declare on my massive empire before.

                Comment


                • #9
                  40.000 gold at the end? Wouldn't that be better used rushing stuff?
                  I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A few comments:

                    I've had ROP with other AI civs, and they still elected to attack. In my current game, it was the Mongols and my military was deemed weak in comparison via F3 (something I try to avoid in successful builder games). I had quickly dropped Settlers into the gaps on the Mongol/French continent created by our successful destruction of the Indians (gaining wines and gems). I had MPP with France (the only other civ still left) and the Mongols attacked anyway. My rep with them has been gracious most of the time, and was polite at a minimum right before the attack. This is my Civ3 experience (not C3C).

                    Your strategy hinges completely on the Great Library. Not that that's bad, just a lot to assume and count on. Rather than "builder-style", I'd call this approach "GreatLibrary-style."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sounds like a worthy addition to A.U.
                      "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                      "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                      2004 Presidential Candidate
                      2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
                        40.000 gold at the end? Wouldn't that be better used rushing stuff?
                        I rushed things all game through. Otherwise I would have easily had more than 100k-150k gold.

                        I rushed universities, Armies, factories, stock exchanges, commercial docks and specially units. I was rushing between 10-15 tanks every two turns at an average price of 250 gold per unit. That's roughly 1.600 gold spent every turn only in rushing tanks, Armies were 1.300 gold after the second turn IIRC. That's BIG money if you've been rush-building all sort of stuff for over a hundred turns ....

                        Other civs were paying me 2000 gpt plus I was making an additional 2100 gold from city income. And on top of it I striked nice tech deals for lump gold; as an example the Greeks paid me 47.500 gold for Computers ... the SETI wasn't built yet, they had like 53.000 gold just before our deal, it's in the saves attached)

                        I had only discovered tanks a few turns back (10-12) before I won.
                        Last edited by Drakan; July 4, 2005, 10:39.
                        If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
                        Ailing Civilization Strategy
                        How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
                        M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by inca911
                          A few comments:

                          Your strategy hinges completely on the Great Library. Not that that's bad, just a lot to assume and count on. Rather than "builder-style", I'd call this approach "GreatLibrary-style."
                          Yes it totally hinges on the GL, which I take as my first "Golden Age".

                          But this strat is devised for Deity nOObs, as the first paragraph of the article states:

                          This article is devised to help deity Noobs or deity wannabes to win confidently on this level as builders

                          At times I follow it at times I don't. In more advanced gameplay, why build it at all ? Just capture the GL. But then the game wouldn't be really builder style but more of a warmonger really.

                          To a greater or lesser extent most players, not all, rely on the GL at Deity and Sid to catch up on techs. A player whose already reached this level of gameplay ain't using the GL as a crutch as say a regent player would.

                          Its a strategy that can easily be turned round to a warmonger approach. By the late industrial ages none of the 15 civs (well maybe only 12 were left by then) were a military match to my mighty 12 Armies and 90 tanks with the economical power to churn out 15 tanks every two turns. I could easily cut them off their oil supplies (no lethal bombers or tanks) and conquest the mightiest of them, the Aztecs, which in fact, I was in the midst of doing when the UNs vote popped up in 1470 AD and I won. I could have continued to invade the mightiest AI civ militarily If I'd wanted being a "builder". I reckon i could've taken the whole continent If I'd care for. You have the save just before the UNs vote, you can try ignoring the vote and continue the game conquering the pangaea continent If you please.
                          If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
                          Ailing Civilization Strategy
                          How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
                          M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vince278
                            Sounds like a worthy addition to A.U.
                            Thanks I'm currently playing on a Sid game trying to pull this strategy off, but it just doesn't seem to work out.

                            It's a huge archipiélago with 15 random civs and 80% water. Playing as the Dutch. Should've chosen the Sumerians instead, I guess. I'll have to resort to the GL elevator to get out of this one.
                            Last edited by Drakan; July 4, 2005, 10:43.
                            If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
                            Ailing Civilization Strategy
                            How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
                            M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Builder-Style Reloaded: SID level; same cool builder strategy, well errm -almost-, same dum AI, same crazy Spaniard. Part I.




                              After posting this Deity builder strategy in the Spanish forum I promised I would try it for Sid seeming how wonderfully easy it worked on Deity every time.

                              I was also encouraged with a post from DaveMcW who wrote that this strategy could be used in Sid albeit changing the map type from Pangaea over to archipiélago and from the scientific trait to the seafaring one.

                              On Sid the AI has a series of “play balancing” bonuses from the start, such as:

                              - They start with 2 extra settlers (their biggest advantage IMHO)
                              - with 12 defensive units
                              - with 6 offensive units
                              - 4 workers
                              - they have a discount of 60% building rate over the human player.
                              - one-turn anarchy (which it's as If they all had the religious trait).
                              - additional free support per city
                              - AI-AI trade bonus of 200


                              Stubborn as I am, I did try -twice- on a huge pangaea with 15 random civs in Sid but after half an hour I just couldn't follow their tech/building pace. So I gave up with huge pangaea maps, archipiélago it is then.

                              So I heeded his advice, which was after all the logical map setting for this difficulty level followed by almost all Sid players (which are all crazy incidentally in case you hadn't noticed already).

                              An archipiélago map would slow the crazy sid tech pace and would delay contacts between the AIs. So these are the saves posted from my first Sid game ever as proud William of the Dutch.

                              The Dutch were an obvious choice for an archipiélago map (seafaring trait) and are also agricultural (great) and have an excellent UU which is the Swiss Mercenary which only costs 30 shields, defends with 4 and comes really early in the Middle Ages with Feudalism just perfect timing to trigger a nice GA. Compared to the musketman which comes with Gunpowder (so you must have saltpetre) and costs twice as much, 60 shields, it was an all too easy choice. Perhaps the agricultural trait isn't as useful in this map setting as say in a pangaea, and it would've been wiser perhaps to choose the scientific trait instead (Byzantines ?) to keep up with my freebie tech in the coming of the new ages. Nah, the Dutch will pull off this one nicely.

                              The map I chose was:

                              - Huge archipiélago, 80% water
                              - With 15 randomly generated AI civs.
                              - No barbarians/no huts, as posted in my deity builder strategy.
                              - AI agressiveness to the maximum.
                              - Random seed on
                              - AP off.
                              - All victory conditions enabled (except the Wonder Victory which isn't really a victory type but more a game-ending condition)

                              No cherry picking, no deck stacking.

                              With the Dutch I start with Alphabet so the bee-line to Literature (GL) was all that easier than say with the Sumerians in my Deity game. Plus I was scared, I must admit, so I didn't want to take any chances at all, I'm a Sid nOOb after all.

                              The first map the CPU generated was the one I chose. It showed a river, hills (high shield output) and above all it had spices, four that I could see. I suspected I was in an island and that I was going to have a monopoly on a luxury which would come very handy indeed to trade with the other AIs for RoP or whatever.

                              As a builder game the victory type sought will be: UNs vote or SS victory. Which doesn't mean I won't do my fare deal of warmongering in between (just so I don't doze off and pour my coke over my CPU )


                              --------------------------------------------------------------------



                              Sid Storyline, Part I: William of The Dutch.



                              I founded Amsterdam in the starting location at 4000 B.C. After sending two warriors as scouts (I can also use my seven king units for that, which have two move points) I realized there was a better spot nine tiles away which had floodplains AND one cattle !! That was THE place for my palace. So I sent a settler, disbanded Amsterdam (tears) and founded The Hague on the coast adjacent to the cattle and floodplain tiles, the home of the future GL.

                              I figured that from The Hague I would be able to create a settler-factory and colonise my small island asap; better than the spot where I founded Amsterdam initially. I sent suicide curraghs all over the place to make contact with other AI civs so the techs poured in the GL when it was finally completed. Established embassies with all AI civs to improve the AI attitude and signed RoP with all of them.

                              I started getting jittery when I saw portuguese curraghs and then, worse of all, russian galleys with settlers colonising all the small islands nearby (they built The Great Lighthouse). I was becoming increasingly anxious. But eventually I settled my home island with 14 overlapping cities.

                              The Celts finished the SoZ, uh-oh ! Wouldn't want THEM as neighbours in a Sid game !

                              I built the GL in 30 A.D. Compared to my sumerian Deity game in which I built it in 590 B.C. the tech pace of this game was going to be slow, very s-l-o-w

                              Only a few techs poured in the next turn. Archipiélago maps do take their tolls on the tech pace.

                              I made my second palace jump over to Maastricht in 400 A.D. So that's three cities that held my palace in this sid game, I'd never done such a stupid thing, but I had a plan on the back of my mind.

                              Just before learning Education I gifted The Hague (with the GL in it) to the most feeble nearby civ I found, the Portuguese with 5 cities now, hardly a fledgling empire. I had brought down The Hague from size 12 to size 3 or 4 just before gifting it building workers. Thank you SirPleb for this neat trick. I surrounded The Hague with my units with a signed RoP, even with three galleys in the coastal tiles. No one was going to mess up with the Portuguese, at least before I did, anyways. When I captured it back it would trigger my "third" GA.

                              I would build units until I had my first war with the Portuguese. The Hague flipped back to me twice and both times I had to rebuff the rebels.

                              I concentrated in expanding to other islands. I filled my galleys with settlers. The Celts were the runaway civ with 40 cities already in 1000 A.D. they had killed the Russians and Hittites in their island (the largest in this game, more like a continent) with the help of the SoZ and the excellent AC units. I had like 26-29 cities. 14 in my home island and the rest were cities in small islands or sprawled in other bigger inhabitated islands.

                              The Celts declared war on me. This took me by surprise, I felt flummoxed. We had a RoP, they were gratious towards me, they referred to me as their "friends"my rep was flawless etc...curse them ! They had sent a galley and a lone longbow to attack one of my cities. When the AI lands an offensive unit from a boat right beside one of your cities that spells for war on the intraturn. So I did the only thing that I could: ask for a loan. I got their 3.000 gold and promised to pay it in twenty turns -he he-. Next turn they declared war and I got no rep hit for it. I Immediately signed a MA with all the AIs against the Celts using the Celt's very own gold (except with the Japanase which I happened to have forgotten to sign them in out of sheer laziness and they joined the Celts the very next turn). The whole world was in war now with the Celts.

                              I had to abandon a medium sized island right beside the Celts which had iron and saltpetre. I had my UUs guarding the three cities and no way was I gonna trigger my GA offtime against the Celts. So I rushed two galleys, filled them with a worker and three Swiss Mercenaries, sold off the most expensive improvements in the cities, set all the citizens to taxmen and abandoned the small island. I'll be back !

                              Years went by and I sued for peace after the twenty turns of MA had gone by. The Celts kept fighting everyone for ages to come. So hardly surprising they are now at a Fascism so their tech pace has grinded to a halt. So I had fueled wars amongst all the AIs and I had managed to neutralise the dreaded Celt sid powerhouse.

                              But someone had to take over the leading Sid AI role after the Celts had tumbled off the top-end ladder and the task was beared upon ... The Vikings. They are the second AI to watch after crushing the innocent Spaniards (sniff) and nearly killing off the Zulus. I vowed revenge upon the Vikings in a muffle on behalf of my dear Queen Isabella. I settled on all the razed cities planning ahead for this moment. The settlers where already there, on the spot, just waiting for the spanish and zulu cities to be razed. That allowed me gems and incense. The Vikings overtook the Celts by about 5 techs I guess in the Industrial Ages.

                              The tech pace was unbearably slow, so muchs so, that in 1430 A.D. I gifted all AIs with all the techs up to Gunpowder to have them up to date and to help decrease the burden of research on the Celts and, specially, the Vikings. The tech speed was just ...

                              After watching intensely every tile in the Celts territory I found that they had one tile with railroads. The vikings already had plenty. That meant that two civs knew already the secrets of Steampower. It was time to pay a visit to Henry of the Portuguese and talk business.

                              Naturally Henry was rather adamant in giving me back The Hague. So I declared war on him in 1470 A.D. btw that was the year I won on my Sumerian deity game the UNs vote, this Sid game was going to take looooong.

                              I had made sure we had no RoP at the time of declaring and that no units of my wre trespassing his territory, no trades of luxuries or anything. Portugal lay to the north of Netherlands, my home island. I had sent 18 galleys with 36 Swiss Mercenaries and perched them atop a mountain on the portuguese island, just outside the cultural boundaries of the Portuguese, waiting ... two galleys were sunk by Privateers (viking). The (viking) privateers sunk a further three galleys loaded with two settlers each. I also lost galleys loaded with settlers in ocean tyles to the elements. All in all I was lucky being a seafarer civ. The Hague (GL) fell in 1.475 A.D.

                              The galleys returned to fetch my 81 knights. I had to travel back and foth thrice. The first time to pick up the pikes, the second and third to transport the knights and a settler.

                              I created a diversion for the Portuguese. Landed my 32 swiss pikes on the northern side of the portuguese island luring their army to come and get me, let two turns go by and then landed 48 knights and a settler on the southern part of their island on the tile which had one of their two horsies and pillaged it the next turn. Henry had moved 4 of his seven king units to the south expecting me to attack from the north with the pikes. Big mistake. My 48 knights swiftly took charge of his 4 king units to the south and eight or so pikeman which were in garrison mode. Only three Henrys to go.

                              All the tech secrets (a total of 15 techs IIRC) popped into the GL at The Hague after capturing it. That called for a massive upgrade of my knights, safe the 5 elite ones, of course. 40 something knights were upgraded to cavalry on the spot in Portugal.

                              Back home, I sent the remaining 30 knights, which were now upgraded to cavalry, with my ever loyal fleet of galleys. So that left my army with a total of approx IIRC 70 cavalry, 5 knights (because elite), 70 swiss mercenaries, six riflemen, and 23 upgraded galleys to galleons and seven -very- mean and ambitious (and rather ambigous, I might add ) King William units.

                              In 1500 A.D. my first MGL, Abel Tasman, was spawned with the attack of my first elite cavalry to a regular portuguese pikeman, that was plain dum luck, thanks RNG, The Portuguese were finished off in 1510 A.D. only eight turns after we started our war. I settled their island. Only razed two cities, the last one holding the last king unit was autorazed. Don't want to raze much because I want to win with a UNs vote/ or SS vic, whatever. I'm meant to be a "builder" for goodness sake. Aw well wth ...

                              I am now in my ninth turn of my GA, 1510 A.D. raking in 700 gpt from my cities and a further 200 gpt from the AIs making a grand total of 900 gpt in the midst of my GA . I'm building banks and universities in my core cities in this GA. I have eleven turns until it finishes. I disbanded Delft in my home island which was size 5 and had no improvements. That left me down from 14 to 13 cities in my home island. Delft's only purpose had already been fulfilled: to build the fleet of loyal galleys.

                              I needed lebensraum for the city that held my FP, Harlingen, which was now busy building my Military Academy while my capital, Maastricht, built the HE. I had sixty something cavalry units, 70 swiss mercenary and seven riflemen. No trebuchets or cannons. No artillery whatsoever. Mistake ?

                              When I finish building universities I'll switch to Builder mode, rush a factory and prebuild for ToE and hopefully win this game builder style -ehem-. But....on the meantime I think that cute Byzantine empire with eight size-12 cities is looking verrry compelling almost becoming me welcome and wait, lo and behold, look at the gullible Japanese further away with only five cities. Cough, yeah I'll switch to builder mode -err- -umm- sometime, maybe later, perhaps, I promise, now I want some fun ! I'm so spoilt.

                              11-07-05 update

                              I only had one iron source next to my FP, so I unhooked and rehooked it at the beginning of every turn with nine workers and a swiss mercenary to pillage it at the end of every single turn until I gained access to a second iron source in Byzantium. I just couldn't afford to deplete my only iron source and just couldn't afford to pay what the AIs asked for.

                              Byzancium lay to the north east of Netherlands and to the east of Portugal. I would use Portugal as my base of operations to start the amphibious assault. The byzantine cities were -almost- all size 12. They knew Gunpowder, which I myself had giften them and everyone else btw, and had saltpetre, unlike me, which I had to trade for with the Arabs.

                              The war started in 1540 A.D. Similar scheme to that employed with Portugal: I sent 26 galleons with 16 rifleman, a further 28 swiss mercenaries, 48 veteran cavalry, four settlers and a three cavalry Army for cover. There was a nice hill tile adjacent to Constantinople; it was there that I intended to make landfall.



                              Continued Sid storyline Parts II and III in posts below:

                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              THE SID SAVES as proud William the Dutch:


                              SAMPLE SID GAME: American version C3C v 1.22



                              Initial save 4.000 B.C. promises to be a spicy game (couldn't resist the pun ):



                              ANCIENT AGES: turn before completing the GL in 30 A.D. :



                              Ancient Ages: third palace jump over to Maastricht in 440 A.D. :



                              Ancient Ages: gifting of The Hague to the Portuguese in 510 A.D. :



                              MEDIEVAL AGES: War with the Portuguese: second turn GA. Recapturing The Hague (GL) in 1475 A.D. :



                              1500 A.D. 7th turn of my GA. My first MGL, Abel Tasman, is spawned against the Portuguese:



                              INDUSTRIAL AGES: 1.510 A.D. 9th turn into my GA, end of war with the Portuguese. Byzantines and Japanese are up next ?



                              Start war with the Byzantines in 1540 A.D. 15th turn GA



                              Start war with the Japanese 1655 A.D.



                              SGL Cristiaan Huygens is spawned in 1750 A.D. after researching the derided tech of Sanitation:



                              Ranked in the F11 screen as the number one approval rate civ in 1772 A.D. :



                              Vikings start building the UNs in 1.804 A.D. Time is running out for me ...



                              1822 A.D. sitting pretty at the UNs waiting to be appointed its chairman ... and waiting.... and waiting....



                              1866 A.D. the turn before the war with the Vikings. My golden years stealing techs and raking in 1.600 gpt.



                              1868 A.D. After getting caught tech stealing the Vikings declared war on me. Watch out for those viking SoD approaching my cities !



                              MODERN AGES: 1884 A.D. I now master Computers with my eyes on Miniaturisation and Internet.



                              End of war with the Vikings 1910 A.D.



                              Two turns before capturing the UNs at Trondheim 1959 A.D.



                              Capturing Trondheim in 1961 A.D.



                              Turn of diplomatic victory 1962 A.D.



                              --- THE END ---


                              Drakan
                              Last edited by Drakan; July 26, 2005, 04:36.
                              If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
                              Ailing Civilization Strategy
                              How to win on Deity Builder style, step-by-step
                              M2TW Guide to Guilds (including Assassins')

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X