The unwanted civ?

[Shogun Gunner]

The UU sucks too.

[Kloreep]

Yeah, the UU is wasted and that's why the Expansionist trait is wasted. Two birds with one stone, I guess.

But, Agr! Surely some radioactive mouthwash isn't worth avoiding that.

[joncnunn]

Actually the Incans are a very good civ IF you know how to play them properly and also aren't on Archepello.

Everything about the Incans are designed to spring out of the starting gate. Weather you trip and fall or cement this lead into a permenant state of affairs is up to the player. I'd sugest triguring the GA via wonder combo. The Chican Scout has a chance of survivng being attacked by some barbs from a barb camp and a non-expansionst civ poping a goody hut and getting barbs as well.

On the Koreans, they are just Greece minus Hoplites but effectively with artillery adviable with Metalurgy at the same price as cannons. Trigure the GA via wonder combo. Those that don't use artillery type units as part of their offenses won't apprecate the Koreans nearly as much as those who do.

[Dis]

the problem is, I usually wait till artillery to do major assaults. I rarely use cannons anyways. How do the Korean UU compare to artillery?

[Kloreep]

Korean UU is nowhere near as good as artillery, what with Artillery's bettered range and RoF.

If you wait for artillery, I'd think the way to go is build lots of the Korean cannon before getting that tech, then build more artillery. Use the arty to bombard units down to 1 HP and then take them out with the H'wachas or however they're spelled.

[punkbass2000]

Definitely Portugal. Worst trait synergy and an annoying UU.

[Kloreep]

I had forgotten Portugal. Expansionist and Seafaring are definitely ill-matched.

[joncnunn]

On the contrary, they balance each other almost perfectly.

Expanionstic : Best on Archepello maps

Seafaring : Best on Pangena maps

This balances out map affects.

Expanionstic is a front-loaded tech, seafaring includes a commerce bonus for coastal cities that keeps improving as time goes on.

Plus their UU the Carrack is a Caravel with no risk of sinking in ocean.

Between the Expansionstic, Seafaring, and Carrack, a human playing the Protguese out to be the first with contacts to all civs in any game. This is a huge edge on technology trades, and later map and contact trades.

Originally posted by Kloreep
I had forgotten Portugal. Expansionist and Seafaring are definitely ill-matched.

[Krill]

I like the portugese. Very powerful in PBEMs...

[Dis]

Originally posted by joncnunn
On the contrary, they balance each other almost perfectly.

Expanionstic : Best on Archepello maps

Seafaring : Best on Pangena maps

This balances out map affects.

Expanionstic is a front-loaded tech, seafaring includes a commerce bonus for coastal cities that keeps improving as time goes on.

Plus their UU the Carrack is a Caravel with no risk of sinking in ocean.

Between the Expansionstic, Seafaring, and Carrack, a human playing the Protguese out to be the first with contacts to all civs in any game. This is a huge edge on technology trades, and later map and contact trades.

I think you meant expansionistic good on Pangea maps, and seafaring good on archipelago maps.

But you still run into problems where you are only effectively taking advantage of 1 of those 2 traits.

[Nikolai]

Anything with a militaristic/seafaring/exploration trait. I am a builder, and those seems to me of little worth.

[Krill]

when expansonist nets you a free settler, you should stop complaining. It can also get you contacts earlier, placing you at an advatage wrt techs, as the more contacts you hve the cheaper research is.

[joncnunn]

No, I meant that expansionistic is the second best traight on a random map that's known to be of Pangena map on turn 1 and that seafaring is the second best traight on a random map that's known to be Archpielago on turn 1. (Agricultural is always best)

On a Pangena, both traights are still used, if nothing else, the seafaring will be useful for commerce bonus. And there may evenually be a need for ships. There's also probably some city sites that need a Harbor for food purposes and the 1/2 price for harbor will help there.

On a Archepello, the expanionstic traight is still used whenever you build a scout and pop a goody hut. It's just that the goody huts are on multiple landmasses so seafarings +1 movement will help you reach them faster.

On a known Contential and also a random style map, both seafaring and expanionstic traights will be used quickly. (Starting scout exploring interor of same land mass while a curragh built to explore the coast and look for other landmasses)

I do note that all seafaring civs fair better in the hands of humans than the AIs because the human will risk sinking and the AI never will.

Protogal is actually an extremely popular choice for MP epic games with random maps. (And so is the Dutch and then the rest of the seafaring civs)

Originally posted by Dissident

I think you meant expansionistic good on Pangea maps, and seafaring good on archipelago maps.

But you still run into problems where you are only effectively taking advantage of 1 of those 2 traits.

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Anything with a militaristic/seafaring/exploration trait. I am a builder, and those seems to me of little worth.

Ok, Military without being seafaring gives builders half price harbors and nothing else, not all that great.

As to seafaring and expansionstic traights though, those are very good for builders!

Seafaring : locate the best islands quickly. Settle that island with a resource / luxary not found on the main land quickly!
CONTACTS! Commerce bonus on all coastal cities.

Expanionstic: locate the best land on your land mass quickly. good chance of a free settler! CONTACTS! no-barbs from huts

The more contacts you have, the faster you can effectively research.

[joncnunn]

Bottom line, there is no civ in conquests that is so terriable that you can't beat the AI. There are just some civs that are mismatched with some play styles.