MGL and Armies

[Solomwi]

What version are you playing, vorlon? IIRC, the problem wasn't present until they gave armies a bonus movement point in Conquests.

[vorlon_mi]

IIRC, 1.29f for Vanilla

I just received all 3 CDs (vanilla, PTW, Conquests)
as a gift from my family, which they bought through
Scholastic Book/Software Club. I have only installed
the first CD, so far.

Yes, they sell Civ to schoolchildren! What a thoughtful
gift!

[vmxa1]

You can install conquest and then play any of the three games. C3 and PTW are basically the same, but C3C has many changes.

Armies in C3 and PTW do not get the extra movement, that is why I said three moves, not 4 as it would be in C3C.

[Willem]

Originally posted by vorlon_mi

I am a relative newbie (playing my 2nd game on
vanilla, as the Persians at Chieftan), but I saw an AI
army in my current game.

Yes the AI does build Armies in vanilla and PTW, but it doesn't in Conquests. That's mainly what people are talking about when they complain about the AI and Armies. In Conquests, it's pretty much broken.

[Neal the Neophyte]

Yes the AI does build Armies in vanilla and PTW, but it doesn't in Conquests. That's mainly what people are talking about when they complain about the AI and Armies. In Conquests, it's pretty much broken.

Actually, it does build armies in Conquest, in Rise of Rome at least. I have seen Carthage field armies twice and both times it was two war elephants and a swordsman.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Neal the Neophyte


Actually, it does build armies in Conquest, in Rise of Rome at least. I have seen Carthage field armies twice and both times it was two war elephants and a swordsman.

That's because they start the game with one. I'll bet that you've never seen more than one per game have you? Rome starts with one as well, I'm not sure about the others.

Ever since I've had Conquests, I've never seen the AI field an Army that wasn't put there to begin with. I have AI Armies in my mods only because I have improvements that produce them after so many turns. Even then I've had to dummy them down by only allowing one unit to load in, because the AI wasn't filling them up.

[joncnunn]

In Conquests:
AI will not turn a MGL into an Army
If given an army, it will only place one unit into it.

This resulted in the bigest change from stock conquets of the AU mod.

(Armies capacitity downsized to 1, but 4 extra HP, removal of requirement of successful army for MA, MA spawning an army every X turns instead of allowing one built, improved combat moved from MA to Pentagon, extra capacity of Pentagon removed.)

[Solomwi]

They won't build it, but they will fill one to capacity under the right circumstances in Conquests. If the first unit in is a slow mover, giving the army M:2, the AI will not hesitate to fill it with other M:2 units. If, on the other hand, the first unit in is, say, a horseman, the army will sit unfilled until you finally get to the city it started in and kill it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solomwi
They won't build it, but they will fill one to capacity under the right circumstances in Conquests. If the first unit in is a slow mover, giving the army M:2, the AI will not hesitate to fill it with other M:2 units. If, on the other hand, the first unit in is, say, a horseman, the army will sit unfilled until you finally get to the city it started in and kill it.

That's not true. I've seen several AI Armies with only a single foot unit in them, nothing else. And they just park them in their capitals doing nothing. That's when I changed the capacity of them to one and added extra hit points. That actually made them work; that and having some improvements spew them out after so many turns as joncnunn has suggested. I've also given that ability to my Palace, after it gets connected to Iron.

[Solomwi]

Yes, it is true. I saw a filled AI army just last weekend. Note that I didn't say they always fill it, just that they will (at least, didn't mean to say that). Did the AI's you saw with such armies have access to any fastmovers? Is it possible they didn't have any built? If all it has available is slowmovers, you'll absolutely see the army with just a single foot unit, because the core problem still exists. Every unit the AI has is slower than the army, in which case the AI is programmed not to add it to the army.

Once it's filled, they'll use it as a human player would, to the extent the AI does anything as a human does. The AI dropping its sword/WE army off in Sicily is case in point of that.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Yes, it is true. I saw a filled AI army just last weekend. Note that I didn't say they always fill it, just that they will (at least, didn't mean to say that). Did the AI's you saw with such armies have access to any fastmovers? Is it possible they didn't have any built? If all it has available is slowmovers, you'll absolutely see the army with just a single foot unit, because the core problem still exists. Every unit the AI has is slower than the army, in which case the AI is programmed not to add it to the army.

Once it's filled, they'll use it as a human player would, to the extent the AI does anything as a human does. The AI dropping its sword/WE army off in Sicily is case in point of that.

OK, the key words I missed in your post was "under the right circumstance." That's still no guarentee that they will fill them though, even if they have the capability.

[Solomwi]

Absolutely. I'd never be foolish enough to guarantee that the AI will do something sensible.

[Neal the Neophyte]

From Willem:

That's because they start the game with one. I'll bet that you've never seen more than one per game have you? Rome starts with one as well, I'm not sure about the others.

I don't see a fine point of difference whether it's "built" or whether they start with one. In both cases they have an army.

I agree that I've never seen more than one.

I've seen one three times and in in every case it was in Carthage North Africa, or transported to Sicily from North Africa. In every case it consisted of three units - two WE and swordsman or other unit. In the last appearance it was two WE's and a Numidan Mercenary.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Neal the Neophyte

I don't see a fine point of difference whether it's "built" or whether they start with one. In both cases they have an army.

It makes a huge difference. If I get a Military Great Leader, I know better than to use it to rush a Temple, or some other minor improvement. That will give me a big advantage in time when I have a number of Armies in the field and the AI only has the one they were given.

I once played the Middle Ages scenario where I had 6 Armies on the go to the AI's none and it turned into a cakewalk. The AI just crumbled and wasn't able to provide me with much of a challenge. It got rather boring taking out city after city and never having to worry about a reasonable counterattack.

[joncnunn]

Looks to me like the AI with a MGL builds the most expensive improvement / Small Wonder that the first city it reaches is allowed to build. (normal palace excluded)

So if they are allowed a Small Wonder and haven't started it yet (fairly rare because of prioritys), they'll rush it.

But if that city is only allowed to build cheap improvements ...