MGL and Armies

[Neal the Neophyte]

The use of the MGL has me pretty confused. I get a GL and create an army, but can't seem to do anything with it. I think I must be missing something thats obvious to the rest of the world. The manual says that I can load units into the army while its in a city, but the way to do that eludes me. I'm sure its going to turn out to be some button that I miss seeing, and I'm prepared to be embarassed - so lay it on me.

I'm also a little confused about the army hit strength. The manual is pretty straightforward about the combined hit strength, but the Macedonians off-loaded an army from a galley and graphically I saw one war elephant plus the "army" graphic. The elephant had a hit rating of 13, but a single Elite Legionary 2 fortified in a city took out the army and only got a hangnail from the battle. What kind of army is that?

This also raises a question about loading armies into galleys. Can and entire army with more than four units be loaded into a galley?

[Dis]

first you have to form an army with your great leader (just hover the mouse over the action buttons on the bottom- the popup text will show when you can form an army).

Then activate the units you want to form into that army. Move those units to the same square the army is in. And then hit the Load button. the button looks similar to the same as loading onto a transport.

[vmxa1]

Well if this is C3C armies should be very strong, if it is PTW or CivIII they are weaker. If this is a mod, who can say what they have set it for.

Once you have an empty army formed, you must move units to the army or the army to the units. Once they are together, the unis need to have movement points let and if so the "load" button should appear when you select the unit.

This presumes that the units can be loaded, such as a horse for instance. You can mix uni types, if you want, but I would at least keep them the same speed.

13 hp army with an elephant could be 5 for one phant or iirc even 6 if elite. Then if it was 2 phant with 5 hp's and one 3 hp unit ro any combination.

I can hardly imagine any 13 hp army not killing a lone Legion, but if it was foryed in a size 7 or 6 with a wall and the city was on a hill and the army attacked over a river, and it was a real bad rng for the army, who knows.

I would expect it was not an army with MA bonus, if it was C3C, that would be very ugly to lose then.

[vmxa1]

Oh, did the city have any bombardment units to get in a free shot?

[Theseus]

You can right-click an enemy Army to see what units it is composed with.

Re loading into ships, the Army itself counts as one unit, so a Galley can only take on an Army with one unit inside, a Caravel can take an Army of two units, a Galleon can take an Army with three, and Trannies can handle anything.

[QuestGAV]

[SIZE=1] and Trannies can handle anything.

... that's so begging for an inappropriate response...

If there are Legionary 2s floating around it sounds like he's playing Rise of Rome (or maybe Fall of Rome also, I never played through that one) so I'd imagine the armies are stock C3C strength.

What are the carrying capacities of galleys in these scenarios? A fully loaded army on a galley seems out of whack.

As for the legion beating it, you either got real lucky or had some nice combat bonuses in your favor.

[Solomwi]

Sounds right. Galleys have a transport capacity of 4 in Rise of Rome. War Elephants still get the HP bonus, so two regulars and a vet, if it's homogenous, would get you to 13.

Neal, my question is were you playing single or multi-player. And if you were playing single-player, why does the AI have a fully filled army? Is it something about the scenario?

[Neal the Neophyte]

Wow! Great responses and I thank you all. Apparently I didn't post complete game info. So I'll do that and answer all the questions - and perhaps have one or two new questions.

But first, I now am clear on what an "army" is. The army is a game construct which is the GML converted to an Army. This army is a single unit (0/0/1) and the attached units (which I thought of as being the army) are separate from the army but are inseparable from it. This sounds like double talk but I think I have it right.

I'm playing C3C, Warlord, "Rise of Rome"; I'm Rome, no mods, city wall, and no bombard units. The city in question is on an island off the toe of the Roman Empire (Sicily?) with two Mace cities, Marsala and Syracuse, and the Rome city of Messana. The attack path does not cross a river and the city is on a plain.

Then activate the units you want to form into that army. Move those units to the same square the army is in.

The manual states "A leader in a city can build an army there." Two responses refer to moving the activated units to the same square as the army (converted GML) is in. Can the army be created in a city without moving to and outside square?

I can hardly imagine any 13 hp army not killing a lone Legion, but if it was forayed in a size 7 or 6 with a wall and the city was on a hill and the army attacked over a river, and it was a real bad rng for the army, who knows.

The Elite was a 6 and actually lost one hit point. The victory sure raised my eyebrows - all three of them. I didn't think to click on the enemy units, but I counted the hit points and came up with 13.

Neal, my question is were you playing single or multi-player. And if you were playing single-player, why does the AI have a fully filled army? Is it something about the scenario?

Playing single. What is a "fully filled" army? That implies limits to the number of units in an army, but the manual doesn’t say that there is a limit.

I think that I've covered everything. Again, thanks for the help.

[QuestGAV]

Originally posted by Neal the Neophyte
But first, I now am clear on what an "army" is. The army is a game construct which is the GML converted to an Army. This army is a single unit (0/0/1) and the attached units (which I thought of as being the army) are separate from the army but are inseparable from it. This sounds like double talk but I think I have it right.

I'm playing C3C, Warlord, "Rise of Rome"; I'm Rome, no mods, city wall, and no bombard units. The city in question is on an island off the toe of the Roman Empire (Sicily?) with two Mace cities, Marsala and Syracuse, and the Rome city of Messana. The attack path does not cross a river and the city is on a plain.



The manual states "A leader in a city can build an army there." Two responses refer to moving the activated units to the same square as the army (converted GML) is in. Can the army be created in a city without moving to and outside square?



The Elite was a 6 and actually lost one hit point. The victory sure raised my eyebrows - all three of them. I didn't think to click on the enemy units, but I counted the hit points and came up with 13.



Playing single. What is a "fully filled" army? That implies limits to the number of units in an army, but the manual doesn’t say that there is a limit.

I think that I've covered everything. Again, thanks for the help.

Right, Armies are created by "loading" normal units into a special army unit that is normally converted from a Great Leader. The units to be loaded must be in the city with your converted Great Leader. You can also build armies in the city that builds the Military Academy, but don't worry about that for now.

The default capacity for an army is 3 units, but that is increased to 4 with The Pentagon later in the game (or it can be affected by mods/scenarios - though I think the official Conquests all leave army size to the default). Once a unit is part of an army it can not be removed.

Armies are hugely valuable because they get an attack bonus, an extra movement point, and the units inside are virtually indestructible unless poorly used (or the RNG goes off the probability charts). They can really turn the tide of the game when well used.

[vmxa1]

Well you can load units into an army any where, so long as the army is not full and the unit has movement points left.

You must create the army in a city, but the army can move empty or load a unit and move up to the new movement limit.

Since an empty army only moves one, it would normally make sense to bring the unit to the army and load. Once loaded the army will have the movement of the slowest unit and the extra movement for the army, if applicable.

[Tattila the Hun]

I have never, ever seen AI using an army...

[vmxa1]

It is rare, but I have seen it.

[joncnunn]

Under stock rules, AI doesn't seem to ever build an army with a MGL, intstead rushing a SW / improvement with it.

If given an army [RoR], the AI will place exactly one unit in it.

This led to a heavy modifiction of armies in the AU mod, perhaps the largest difference in flavor:

1. Armies capacity downsized to 1.

2. Armies given 4 extra hitpoints.

3. Military Academy no longer requires Victrious Army. No longer allows construction of armies but does spawn an army every 25 turns. No longer imcreases combat bonsus of armies.

4. Pentagon no longer allows an additional unit to join an army. Instead it increases the combat bonsus of armies.

[Dis]

that's what I like most about that mod, though I would increase the hitpoints a little more.

[Theseus]

jon left out that there are AI Armies all over the place in the AU Mod.