Just beat the game at monarch difficulty for the first time...wonder vic'try (korea)

[Terra Nullius]

bugger

can someone tell me how to attach a file please?

cheers

[Modo44]

Use the "Attach file" thingie at the bottom of the "Reply to Topic" page. Note it forgets attachments if you use Preview, so you need to remember to add the file when you are ready to post...

By minimizing lost Shields I meant using build queues that minimize losses, not any structures. This can be a way of improving the Granary-building queues to help even more.


I played with my scenario, and have some results. I played the English until 1000 BC. This is probably a very early end to the REX, but it is enough to show the main (partially surprising) difference. In both cases the first two cities made a Warrior and a Worker before going on with the show, to have enough workforce to make the Irrigation and Roads.

I used exactly the same city pattern, and almost exactly the same placing order in both cases. Cities were usually put down on the same turn or on the turn after a Settler was built. Both times I tried my best, and both times I slipped here and there. I think others should be able to repeat similar results (or at least achieve the differences I saw).

At 1000 BC

• The build pattern: Granary, Settler, Warrior, W, S, W, W, S, W, W, S, ...
  Had: 27 trade, 22spt, 18 population, 7 cities, 3 Workers, 4 Spears, 4 warriors.
  Things less obvious: The ability to grow quickly once the REX is over, the ability to increase REXing speed by leaving out some builds, in need of careful Worker and Citizen management, will need new Workers soon.
• The build pattern: Warrior, W, Settler, W, W, S, W, W, S, ...
  Had: 21 trade, 19spt, 13 population, 8 cities, 1 Settler, 3 Workers, 8 Spears, 11 Warriors.
  Things less obvious: No way to increase REXing speed, painfully slow growth once the REX is over, easy citizen and Worker management, can do a bit longer without new Workers, could be Archer- or Swordsman-rushing someone about now.

After this point, the civ with Granaries has a much bigger growth potential (wide or high — you choose). Provided the map is medium or bigger, the additional Settlers will start showing quickly (each city can produce Settlers and Workers about twice as fast as the cities of the non-Granary civ). The bigger the map (i.e. longer REX), the bigger the potential. And that having already 1.5 times the population of the other... Need I say more?

[ariano_paluda]

Sorry for the absence. haven't had access to the internet for a while. So i haven't been able to se your replies. Seems that you two have had a bit of an argument ;-) and i must admit that most of your abbreviations is something that's WAY above me....

In the very beginning of page two, you (lebensraum) ask me for my reason to want a change to monarchy: better unit support, not as much corruption, no war weariness, better production AND you can rush with money....i'm not good at rushing with pop, because of the unhappiness it causes. It seems to me that a lot of you guys is using workers to speed up the growth of some cities??? do you guys use that as an alternative to building granaries?? wouldn't that hamper the growth of "supporting" cities?? the ring you talk about, is it when you build cities with the same distance to your capital?? if so:you cannot always build cities in a ring around your capital, because of land shape (actually i've only been able to do it once, and that was in this recently completed game)

wrt beelining for a specific tech, i once tried going directly for horsebackriding (with the japanese), and even before i had HR the opponents had it, PLUS a LOT of other techs that i didn't

AP

[vmxa1]

There is a topped thread that contains most abbreviation.

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by ariano_paluda haven't had access to the internet for a while.

that's cool i'm in much the same predicament - internet cafes seem really cheap until you get enaged in, err, diplomacy with the eastern bloc.

Seems that you two have had a bit of an argument

nah,.. i just state the facts and modo is a little slow in catching on.

as far as monarchy goes, there are a few points i would make...
i) tech issues
as a 'bee-line,' it's crap. the ai will mostly try to get to monarchy pretty quickly by themselves. so most of your research is wasted. you could buy the techs off the ai cheaper than you can research them.
nb. does not apply to 'monarchy' itself. i would normally buy all the intermediate techs, then research monarchy by myself.

keeping up in tech is generally easier if you research techs that the ai is not researching. you can then sell them back to different ai's in exchange for techs you do not have. mathematics, currency, construction are often good bets.

better unit support, not as much corruption, no war weariness, better production AND you can rush with money.

ii) unit support
the stats for unit support are:
despotism;
4 per town, 4 per city
monarchy;
2 per town, 4 per city
republic;
1 per town, 3 per city

- remember, despotism has higher unit support than monarchy.
- republic does have less support, but there's not such a big difference there.

the major barrier to running a successful republic is availability of aquaducts. if you have lots of small towns and not many rivers, you get very little unit support. to get out of that situation you have to stop and build lots of aquaducts. early in the game, that will be difficult, so it's easier to just switch to monarchy.

you have six core cities with natural aqua's (rivers) so that suggests a republic might be sustainable

iii) happiness
monarchy allows 2 mp's (military units in a city create happy faces)
republic allows no mp's

on the one hand, this means it's easier to maintain happiness in a monarchy. on the other hand, if you rely on mp's to generate happiness, you lose the benefit of increased unit support - your units are ties up keeping citizens happy instead of getting into combat. you may find yourself constantly juggling troops to maintain order rather than getting them to the front quickly.

ideally you want at least two, preferably three or four luxuries to run a republic effectively. from what i can see, you only have one luxury (furs). that could be a problem and could call for a certain level of, umm diplomatic action.
nb. marketplaces multiply the benefit of luxuries. this is a double benefit for republics because of the lower corruption they also experience. (ie. republics have less corruption, hence more gold this can mean a republic will benefit more from marketplaces than a monarchy would)

iv) war weariness
republics do have higher war weariness. this is not as much of a problem as it would appear. i used to make the mistake of assuming i had to build up massive numbers of troops so i could overrun other civs and avoid long wars. in fact, you can fight a long war if you have to.

basically, fighting a war in republic requires a short, sharp stabbing motion. war weariness is generated by having units in enemy territory, having units come under attack, losing workers, settlers etc, losing cities, having tiles pillaged.

in other words, create a zone of control - wait for the enemy to advance into your territory, then move forward and attack. do not leave units standing in the open. when you make an advance to claim territory, mass your troops and make a strong push toward the target. once you claim a city, voila! your units are no longer in enemy territory.
you do not want to send your units trudging around aimlessly through enemy territory.

once you get the technique right, war weariness becomes minimal. more importantly, this is a skill you will need to develop if you want to become proficient at higher levels of play. it gives you better "level-mobility"

v) cash-rush vs pop-rush
i agree, pop-rushing can be a powerful tool, but unless you really know what you are doing, it can ruin you. wait until you get the other details ironed out first. there is no hurry to become a master pop-rusher.

the ring you talk about, is it when you build cities with the same distance to your capital?? if so:you cannot always build cities in a ring around your capital, because of land shape

quite true, it's just an approximation

wrt beelining for a specific tech, i once tried going directly for horsebackriding

yep, it takes a lot of experience to know what tech to go for under every situation. be cool, play around with a few different ideas. not all of them will work.