Governments

[theDragon]

Hey I was wondering what everyone thought of the best Mod-Made Governments. I have always thought there should be some more depths to the political systems. I was thinking of making a government that works as a bridge to Communism like Republic is a bridge to Democracy. The way I see it is this:

(+) Economy ----------------- (-) Economy
DEMOCRACY---REPUBLIC---COMMUNISM
(-) Unit Support ------------- (+) Unit Support

There is nothing nothing that is a bridge between Republic and Communism where I feel there should be. So I was thinking about making a government called Democratic Socialism where the economy is not as bad as Communism but worse than Republic and the Unit Support and WW is better than Republic but worse than Communism.

(+) Economy -------------------------------------- (-) Economy
DEMOCRACY---REPUBLIC---DEMO SOCIALISM---COMMUNISM
(-) Unit Support ---------------------------------- (+) Unit Support

I dont know, I would be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on Democratic Socialism, as well as hear about any Mod-Made governments from anyone else.

Thanks!

[Scorpi40000]

Social Democracies tend to have good economies! Just look at Sweden, Norway and Denmark (Denmark is "desocialing" now though )!

[joncnunn]

Sweden used to have a best economy in the world. Until sometime in the 70s the socialist govt got very out of hand with major projects that those they were intended for never wanted.
(Public Housing in one section of Stockholm.) That section is now full of immigrats from around the world with few native Sweeds, who like Americans prefer owning homes.

[Scorpi40000]

Social Democracies heavily taxes it's citizens to pay for public services such as roads, hospitals, schools and the like. This makes sure that the rich helps the poor and allow for more evenly distributed wealth. For example is the gap between rich and poor way smaller in scandinavia than in the US.

In civ3 I would split Democracy in two, Social Democracy and Liberal Democracy.

Both would have commerce bonus. Soc. Demo. would have either communal or minimal corruption and Lib. Demo. would have either nuisance or minimal. Soc. Demo. would require no maintenance (Heavy taxation) but support little or no military and Lib. Demo. would support a reasonable army (There's always companies trying to profit on war)...

Placing Social Democracy near Communism on a Economy/Military scale is just absurd.

[theDragon]

Thanks guys, and I must say I agree completely with you too, its just I wasnt sure how much people would apprechiate just another Rep govern't adding to the list. I like the idea of splitting Democracy up and I think i will look into that. THANKS!

[Scorpi40000]

Too late! I have already copyright on that idea! Now it'll cost you!
"500 bucks up front and it's yours!"

Just kidding...

[Scorpi40000]

Maybe that hypercapitalist as my avatar is a little "misplaced" with my socialistic tendencies...

[theDragon]

Heres a thought that just hit me - WW. What to do of that? Should it have the same WW as Republic? Democracy? Or none? Would love to hear some feedback.

[Scorpi40000]

I think WW should be the same for both! Very high!

[joncnunn]

To me, it looks like the "socialist democracies" have even more trouble with WW than the "liberal democracies." And in addition tend to have smaller militaries. And yes, if you regard many social programs and narrow tax breaks as corruption, they also suffer more from than than "liberal democracies"

This presents a definate playability problem. Who would pick a govt within CivIII that's worse in all ways compared to another govt.

As is, in both stock conquests and AU, it is unpopular among the best players to switch from Republic to Democracy [non-Relgious civ], because Democracy's advantage is generally too small to make up for the probable seven to nine turn anarchy.

I'm starting to think that the best solution is to revert Republic to the pre-Conquests settings. (No free unit support, but no double the cost either.) Combined with adding an FBI Small Wonder that functions as a SPHQ but for Democracies.

[Scorpi40000]

Ok for once i didn't say corruption should be higher than Liberal! I said it should be minimal. And to make up for the small army you wouldn't have to pay maintenance for your buildings. And WW should be the same!

In short: No building maintenance (That means not having to pay gold each turn for buildings!), lower corruption than Liberal, same WW as Liberal, smaller army than Liberal.

[ShadowKat]

Advanced social models

Based on some intense discussions I've had with a friend of mine, I've been thinking lately about adding our two favourite anarchic social-models, Anarchosocialism and Anarchocapitalism. While they aren't "governments" in the traditional sense, they represent a total lack thereof without the entire nation living in chaos - one with a capitalistic economy and the other a socialistic economy. Of course they'd be basically impossible before the modern age and probably require The Internet to apply or somesuch. Thoughts?

[theDragon]

Anarchical GOVERNMENT... Interesting.. however I dont know how I feel about that yet...


However, I have on another note, come up with a decision for my own governmental issues. I thank you all for your input, for I am going ahead and using the idea of breaking up Democracy (copyright or not ) in an effort to make it more bearable. I have also read up on Apolyton University's Government Mod Thread and have come to the same conclusion: Later governments need to become more appealing to both the AI and Humans. Thus I have come up with the following:


NAME-----------Unit Support (Support Cost)---WW-----Corruption-(1-6)(1=best)

Monarchy-----------1.4.3-(2)----------0--------------4
Fuedalism-----------4.3.1-(3)----------0---------------5
Republic-----------1.2.3-(3)---------low--------------3
Fascism------------2.4.10-(3)---------0----------------3
Communism-----7.7.7-(2)-----------0----------------3
Social Demo------2.4.4-(2)----------low--------------1
Demo Socialism--1.2.2-(3)----------high-------------2

I would like to hear everyone's ideas/thoughts on that... I still need to test the Corruption and unit support presently. I think that the way it is right now isnt perfect, but its a good start to making the ancient governments obsolete and evening out the modern governments IMO.

THANKS!

[Mace]

Originally posted by theDragon
Monarchy-----------1.4.3-(2)----------0--------------4
Fuedalism-----------4.3.1-(3)----------0---------------5
Republic-----------1.2.3-(3)---------low--------------3
Fascism------------2.4.10-(3)---------0----------------3
Communism-----7.7.7-(2)-----------0----------------3
Social Demo------2.4.4-(2)----------low--------------1
Demo Socialism--1.2.2-(3)----------high-------------2

Hmm.. I am very curious about your modern govt choices.

What would, say, the current Japanese government be in your proposed list of govts?

What would the U.S. govt be in your list?

What would the Mexican govt be in your list?

What would the Swedish govt be in your list?

[Mace]

My thinking on this is that if you do a split, it should be like RAR does. RAR doesn't do everything right, but they are close on their governments. Representative modern govts are:

Constitutional Monarchy
Federal Republic
Social Democracy

All of them have high WW. The advantages and disadvantages lie in the special wonders that go with them. I think this would have to be done to make them all equally desirable...depending on what playstyle one wanted to play.

Social D should probably have higher support costs but to offset this, it should have some govt-specific happiness improvements (like Universal Health Care) that only Social D's can build.

Social D could also be communal corr. but that I would have to study more. It's a neat concept, a representative govt (with the trade bonus) but with communal corruption.

I don't like the idea of an FBI wonder to act as a SPHQ in a Federal Democracy, for example. The thought of a "big brother" police state wonder such as the FBI is anathema to a representative government such as a Fed Dem. Rather, Fed Dem could have a "The Constitution" wonder that acts as a SPHQ or somesuch.

And Const Mon? What would it get? Why, "Magna Charta" or course!