Global Warming

[Theseus]

v, in that game, would you not be planning to field a large force of Tanks/MAs? Even being Commie, I'd think that Factories would be useful...

[vmxa1]

No because the tech race fell apart and I am not sure why. As normally the top dog manages to hold about 6 turn pace from the late industrial to the end.

Some where in the early industrial the top two just slowed way down. The only thing I could see was they were seriously polluted, more than normal. Since I did no research after I built the GL, I did not help any. Usually I will join back in mid to late industrial age to try to get a tech here and there that is not chosen right away.

I did not build libs or unis at all, except for a few cities that got libs for the culture. So those three things must have dogged it down.

The top dog stayed in a declared, but mostly unfought war from that point on as well. When the second rank civ started being first to techs, it did things like not research tanks and went back to get marine tech, very strange.

Three times I had my lone scientist get to single digits in an optional tech only to have the AI research it out from under me.

I finally stopped even that. So I could see that I would be so late in the game by the time I got tanks, it was not going to be worth using them. I cranked out 40-50 just about the time the game ended.

One possible issue for me was that I could not rush anything with cash and I did not want to use pop. I had some 150K on hand. No one even ever demanded any money from me? Once or twice the wanted tech or a trade for lux, but never declared?

Also I had not seen this before, but one civ had not made contacts with 3 of the civs? I had been giving out my map, so they all knew where the civ was. I finally gave the contact out in the last 10 turns.

I had wars going off and on with the second civ for most of the second half of the game.

So yes factories are useful, but unneeded, so I skipped them. Just being lazy, that all. I mean with cities far far away still being able to build things in 10 turns and that city was all tundra, why bother? I just wanted to avoid the pollution.

I tend to only build factories in core cities and seldom have more than 10 of them. Normally I cannot afford to crank out units in more than 8-10 cities, but with communism, I could have.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Dissident
I hate pollution. In my latest mod I made it so factories produce 0 pollution. Who ever hear of pollution in the 19th century anyways?

By the 19th century there were already efforts in England to restore some architecture damaged by air pollution. Lots of smoke came not only from factories, but also from houses burning coal for heat. Big industrial cities already suffered from smog long before automobiles became the problem.

It's very annoying in the game, but it's close to reality. Until you put a cap on Factories (Recycling Center), they kill ya. In other words, you have too few Workers. One can do very well even with Coal Plants.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Modo44

By the 19th century there were already efforts in England to restore some architecture damaged by air pollution. Lots of smoke came not only from factories, but also from houses burning coal for heat. Big industrial cities already suffered from smog long before automobiles became the problem.

It's very annoying in the game, but it's close to reality. Until you put a cap on Factories (Recycling Center), they kill ya. In other words, you have too few Workers. One can do very well even with Coal Plants.

reality? huge chunks of land were unworkable to England in the 19th century? Since when does air quality constitute ability to work the land?

Civ3 model is total bull****. The tile should at least give something.

and is there a way to stop your worker being kicked off the square when pollution occurs? I hate micromanage to the point I have to make sure my workers don't get rearrainged and my cities start starving. I wish there was a way to lock the workers on their squares.

as I've said, the hit should be economic, not production.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Dissident

and is there a way to stop your worker being kicked off the square when pollution occurs? I hate micromanage to the point I have to make sure my workers don't get rearrainged and my cities start starving. I wish there was a way to lock the workers on their squares.

I am not sure I followed this one. I often see pollution occur on the same tile I cleaned a few turns before and the workers are still fortified on that tile.

They are not kicked off the tile and I just unfort them and clean it again.

I really do not see the concern about realism, it is a game, not real. They picked a model to represent a feature, it is as good as any others, none are real. If this was a simulation and not a game, then I would agree.

BTW I am guessing that dumping of trash and slag and waste made a few acres unproductive as they still do. Mountains of slag have fallen into rivers, lake and ponds as well as slide down hills to cover pastures in the US, even in the 20th century.

[Theseus]

v, he meant citizens inside the city screen.

[vmxa1]

Ah, that was clear as mud. Ok no way then, you always need to reposition the citizen after cleanup or suffer with it being used the way the gov decides.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Dissident
reality? huge chunks of land were unworkable to England in the 19th century? Since when does air quality constitute ability to work the land?

As vmxa said, there are waste dumps. The simple communal waste all metros produce takes quite big chunks of land to store, as most of it is still not cleaned properly. But there's not only communal waste. Heavy industry makes it's own. Shoots can become the size of a hill. Some have chemical reactions going on inside, poisoning air an water around. I know that heavy industry in Poland has left many of those, and presumably, so have other contries' factories and coal plants. For all purposes, yes, they make the terrain they're on completely useless. And cleaning the terrain takes quite expensive efforts.

[Last Conformist]

The bits of the midlands covered by slagheaps must've reached some considerable total area.

[joncnunn]

As I recall, the polution in London peaked roughly around 1850, when people started making enough money to spend a portion of it improving their life style by starting to clean it up.

It was manifest mostly by substantly decreased life expectancy.

Even as far back as the 1600s, London (and all other major cities in Europe) had more natural deaths than natural births because of the unsanitary conditions. The only reason they were even maintagining population was the vast immigaration from the farms.

Oh, and if you think car polution is bad, consider the alternative of everyone getting around in horses and the amount of horse polution on the ground left + air polution caused by it.

[joncnunn]

I think adding Hospital reduces population polution should suffice to eliminate the population polution if you want to.

I sugest for any facility you remove polution from (that causes 2+), that you add a makes the same number of people unhappy switch.

Then Recyling Plants & Mass Transit could make 2 people happy each so that there's still a reason for them. (Remove the Agr bonsus from Recyling Plants.)

Originally posted by Dissident
But I don't think you can disable population pollution. production should be balanced out by maintenance costs, and the time it takes to build the facilities.

`

[Dis]

perhaps I will change it so hospitals reduce population pollution then. And then raise the maintenance costs considerably. because that's another complaint I have. Not that there's pollution, but you have to wait so long until you can build anything to curb pollution.

[Kristjan]

BUMP

Still nobody knows about inner mecahnics of Global Warming occurance?

[joncnunn]

Population is usually the larger source of polution in Civ III.

Global Warming is an RNG event. Per city; never seen it strike a tile not near a city.

In my current game (stock Conquests), I fairly quickly got a polution on an unmined mountain tile after the city grew to size 13. I still have not bothered to clean it up in the modern era. Hasn't yet caused Global Warming. AI is way behind, so they still aren't contributing any polution.

[bongo]

There are probably some treshold value, one tile polluted forever probably won't affect you at all.


Remember a story one guy told about global warming spiralling out of control after a nuclear exchange. Everything ended up as desert