Global Warming

[Kristjan]

Hello

I would like to get this issue clear very much. How much pollution (yellow triangles) has the whole planet accumulate to reach global warming? 100 000? More? Less?

I could not find any relevant postings...

Thanks in advance.

[Geronimo]

I had figured it was uncleared pollution tiles rather than the yellow triangles which determines the odds of global warming effects. I also supposed that in civ3 the effects are one tile at a time just like the regular pollution is handled rather than a set threshhold that causes massive instantaneous change. It will be interesting to hear how it really works.

[bongo]

In civ2 the treshold was 9 polluted tiles globally. More than that and you have a change of getting global warming.

Not sure about civ3 though but I think it is a combination of the global amount of pollution from cities(those yellow smokestacks, or was it triangles) and polluted tiles.

[Redstar]

its annoying that all pollution is counted...

as the comp ai almost never bothers to clean up pollution.

That said...after a huge nuclear war..with about 26 cities nukes...

maybe 8 pieces of land would undergo the effects of global warming.

the average was 5 per turn.

Now that i have cleaned up all that mess (some 8 turns and 187 workers later)...i still get an average of 3 a turn.

So really the effects of global warming seem rather muted and not scaled to massive nuke fests.

[vmxa1]

The editor says nothing about pollution, that I can see anyway. Pollution on tiles does nothing to add to the global warming AFAIK. It can eventually do damage to the tile itself, but I have never seen it do any.

It is quite common in my Sid games to see the AI never clear any pollution as it has no workers by the time of factories.

The funny thing about global warming is that it could improve a tile. I have seen a (forrested tundra tile?) a tile go to grassland. But most of the time I get only a few occurences of warming.

[joncnunn]

A large Number of yellow triangles alone is sufficent by itself to cause global warming.

I've seen it when I've had no polution tiles and the AI doesn't even have the tech for either Factories or Hospitals.

Global Warming isn't nearly as bad as it was in Civ II, where entire coasts got jungle.

The annoying thing is when it causes a perfectly balanced city to be on track for a minus 1 deficit, and a worker needs built and the rail in an irrigation needs pillaged to balance.

[joncnunn]

In Civ III, tundra doesn't get changed by default.
Forest can be cleared by global warming.

Grassland can become Plains, which if the tile had no natural shield isn't particularly bad.

[Geronimo]

so far global warming has been exclusively turning jungle into grassland in my game. This has been strangely conveneient because all 10 tiles so far changed in this way were on a landmass in which I had scores of workers trying to clear the disease infested jungle expanse the hard way

[Kristjan]

Originally posted by joncnunn
A large Number of yellow triangles alone is sufficent by itself to cause global warming.

But how much? I tried with 2000 per turn from 4000 BC to 10 AD and it did not occur.

[Redstar]

i have never seen global warming NOT happen.

and i was sure it was tied to the amount of pollution patches sticking around,

and not just the probability represented by those yellow triangles.
If it is the yellow triangles.then the comp Ai dooms us all

[vmxa1]

Like I said the pollution on the ground has no effect on global warming. I am at 2000AD in a sid game right now, waiting for the clock to run down. Several civs have massive amounts of tiles covered in pollution and have had for some time.

They are not clearing it at all. I have not had any warming. This is because I built no hospitals and only two factories. I am surprised that none has occurred as it is usually the case, but not always.

Oh and no coal plants. I did build two, but scrapped them after I got Hoovers. One city has four triangles as it built Shakespears and is now a metro.

[Solomwi]

Vmxa, I think I have an idea what your answer may be (a few ideas, actually, knowing nothing of the game you speak of ), but please explain the situation/rationale behind not building more factories.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Vmxa, I think I have an idea what your answer may be (a few ideas, actually, knowing nothing of the game you speak of ), but please explain the situation/rationale behind not building more factories.

I could see that I was not going to be make any items that could not be built in a few turns with my main two cities and 4 or 5 turns in the few other key cities.

IOW I was only going to get to tanks and maybe MI. I would not build any MI as I have scores of infantry I could upgrade with more money than Bill Gates.

So I did not want to be cleaning pollution constantly and facing global warming or at least no more than I had to face.

If it did turn out that I wanted more production I could crank out a factory in a dozen or two cities in short order. I still have a GA I could trigger as well in a pinch.

The only civ I could hope to take down now has at least 200 infantry units and several hundreds other units. I have two border cities with them, but they do not want to attack me any more.

I count on the AI to throw about half its forces against my first spear head and they stopped before they lost that many and blocked by movement with lots of units.

The others have up to 1200 units the last time I checked. Even the civ that has fewer cities than any other has 800+ units.

With only calvs and infantry you would be hard press to take a city that will have a minimum of 50 units. The key for me to survive the counter attack is to have a barracks so my armies and troops are healed after each attack.

My attempt on the Zulu stalled and I was nearly wiped out (invasion forces). I did not watch that battle, but I know what happened as when I came back to the game I had lost my only UU (Swiss Merc). No other units were lost and at that time I had 5 armies and a bunch of calvs and rifles. I was unable to upgrade as my culture for that city did not get past theirs and my harbor was not connected.

So I have seen many of these battles and I knew they had about 167 unis in the stack that would attack (stopped by forrest). So it most likely that the UU was not used until all the others had been redlined. I do not like to watch these battles as they take a long time and I get mad as the AI keeps using my army that has 2 hit points left, while the other units sit there unused. I have lot lots of armies that way.

So anyway I just did not see any need for factories at that time. I had not done that before, but then I had not used communism much either. Since I could have 30 cities making a unit in 8 turns with no factories and no pollution, that was good enough. I mean every city I have has at least 3 infantry units in it. I have infantry armies to rush to any pressure I see coming.

If a shot came up for something like a wonder I had one city with about 90+ shields that I could prebuild and build it. I have spies on all civs, so I can keep tabs and I just decide to ride the game out and not go to the work on trying to take down anyone else.

It has been a strange game as no civs are at war with each and have seldom been at war. I have only America at war with me, but they have not send any one in so long and they want peace, I just won't give without compensation. They ar ethe largest, so I am not bother to attack them.

[Dis]

I hate pollution. In my latest mod I made it so factories produce 0 pollution. Who ever hear of pollution in the 19th century anyways?

pollution sucks in game mechanics.

Is there anyway to disable it? I could disable pollution from power plants and factories easy enough. But I don't think you can disable population pollution. production should be balanced out by maintenance costs, and the time it takes to build the facilities.

[vmxa1]

Well I am not fond of it either, but 19th England was always discribe as having lots of fog, when in fact it was pollution.

I think it is fair to say that a city that is among the largest (metros) is going to have pollution from the people. They dump stuff in the rivers and lakes and the wayside.
This is true all through history.