One culture flip guarantees no future flips

[gunkulator]

...at least in my current game.

I captured Paris which had the Pyramids, Temple of Artemis and the Palace of course. Huge culture city for the French. Well, I starved Paris down to 1 citizen as usual and left a couple Knights outside the city just in case.

Paris grows to size 6. 5 of my (Dutch) citizens and that 1 lone Frenchman.

Sure enough, a couple dozen turns later, Paris flips back to the French. No problem. I'm still at war and my Knights quickly retake Paris. I open up the city window and hey! All the citizens are Dutch! Where did that lonely French guy go?

Then it occurs to me that with all citizens now Dutch plus control of all 21 city tiles (thank you, TOA), there is now NO chance at all for the city to ever flip again!

I thought that when citizens are lost due to war, disease, workers, starvation or whatever, that the "rightmost" citizens always disappeared first. This is the only case I've ever seen where the "leftmost" citizen was lost first. Anyone else ever notice this?

[Redstar]

i can safely say one flip does NOT stop future flips

the best bet against that is to wipe out that civilization asap

---

i don't like the randomness of it either.

[Arrian]

The french citizen was assimilated. There are different rates based on government choice.

Then it occurs to me that with all citizens now Dutch plus control of all 21 city tiles (thank you, TOA), there is now NO chance at all for the city to ever flip again!

Yeah, I think that would be the case. No foreign citizens, no culture pressure... no flip chance.

-Arrian

[Redstar]

my bad..i did not notice you were just talking about one city and its potential to reflip.

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Arrian
The french citizen was assimilated. There are different rates based on government choice.

Didn't even know that citizens were assimilated. Learn something new everyday...

[pvzh]

Frenchman was killed as you retook the city: city loses 1 citizen (randomly choosen) each time it is taken. Assimilation occurs only if you held the city more than the original owner or the original owner does not exists anymore.

[Theseus]

Wait a sec... two things don't make sense:

1. The Frenchie couldn't have been assimilated... he caused the flip, and would have still been there when Paris was re-captured. So the original question stands: Where'd he go?

2. What do you mean 21 tiles of cultural space due to the TOA? Captured GWs don't provide culture.

[pvzh]

Theseus: ToA gives a free temple (including the city with ToA) which produces culture.

[gunkulator]

Even after TOA is made obsolete, you get to keep all the culture generated, although you do lose the temples of course.

[Arrian]

Frenchman was killed as you retook the city: city loses 1 citizen (randomly choosen) each time it is taken. Assimilation occurs only if you held the city more than the original owner or the original owner does not exists anymore.

Oh, really? I didn't know that assimilation doesn't start until you hold the city a certain length of time. Are you sure about that?

The other bit makes sense - Frenchy died in the re-capture.

-Arrian

[Willem]

Originally posted by Theseus
Wait a sec... two things don't make sense:

1. The Frenchie couldn't have been assimilated... he caused the flip, and would have still been there when Paris was re-captured. So the original question stands: Where'd he go?

Foreign nationals aren't the only reason for culture flipping. You can have one of your own cities, with all your own citizens, flip to another civ. It's about culture, not nationality.

[gunkulator]

Yes, but there's no chance of a flip at all unless you have either a) foreign citizen(s) and/or b) 1 or more tiles in the city radius under foreign control.

What's confusing to me is what made the French guy go away. Clearly he was the cause of the flip but when I took the city back, he wasn't there. The city didn't even have 1 full turn for him to be assimilated.

[Willem]

Originally posted by gunkulator

What's confusing to me is what made the French guy go away. Clearly he was the cause of the flip but when I took the city back, he wasn't there. The city didn't even have 1 full turn for him to be assimilated.

He was probably destroyed like pvzh mentioned.

[Geronimo]

Is it almost impossbile to capture and keep large old cities in civ3? is genocide the only route to conquest? I'd like to know before stating my first campaign of conquest.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Is it almost impossbile to capture and keep large old cities in civ3? is genocide the only route to conquest? I'd like to know before stating my first campaign of conquest.

No it's not impossible, but you have be aware of the possibility of a culture flip and act accordingly. First off, don't park all your units in the city if you think there's a chance it will happen. If it does, you'll lose them all. Leave a bunch of them just outside so you can retake the city if necessary.

Secondly, starve the foreign nationals down to just one, then start adding your own. This will kill two birds with one stone so to speak; reduce the chances of a flip and shorten the time the city is resisting.

Third, build your own culture ASAP. the longer the city sits without any, the better the chances of it flipping.

And if you can, try and capture some the cities nearby, even if you know you won't be able to hold them for long. If you can reduce the other civs culture for a little while, while you get yours up and running, you'll improve your chances.