war leads to anarchy.how prevent or know its going to happen.

[Redstar]

last i posted on this forum was in 2001. so sorry if this has been answered

for original civ 3:

Ima demo with something like 100 cities.

i have my entertainment set to 50%

i have the wonders for making happy people. alot of cities have the police/courthouses.. the computer manages the moods.

Every turn i am not notified of any unrests.
20 years into the war..i continue to have we love the president days all over the place.

But without warning..my civ collapses into anarchy.

WHY? there seems to be no way to check on what makes this happen.

There seems to be no way of avoiding it.
(if i declare peace..my allies declare war on me grr

i realise this must have something to do with war weariness...but this is like only the second time of playing that this has happened to me. And the no warning of imment collapse or signs of anything wrong is troubling.

[Dis]

100 cities!

[Dominae]

Re: war leads to anarchy.how prevent or know its going to happen.

Originally posted by Redstar
Every turn i am not notified of any unrests.
20 years into the war..i continue to have we love the president days all over the place.

But without warning..my civ collapses into anarchy.

One or more of your cities must have been rioting for multiple turns without your knowledge. Check the appropriate box in Preferences to be notified whenever a city riots. With 100 cities it's too much work to ensure no city ever riots, but it should not be too hard to ensure a city never riots for more than one turn.

By the way, the reason your populace is growing increasingly unhappy is that in addition to war happiness (which only happens at the beginning of a war) there is also war weariness (which accrues). The longer you stay at war, the more weariness takes over happiness. This most often takes hold in the cities on the edges of your empire, because they typically have fewer happiness improvements and suffer greater corruption (affecting Luxury slider "payout"). So while your core (i.e. most important cities) may continually celebrating, a few fringe cities could be really unhappy and result in the demise of your government.

[Dis]

also I should note that sometimes when multiple cities are rioting, that the popup doees not come up correctly as it should (though you will get the text on the screen letting you know a city is rioting).

this means you will have to scan your cities visually on the world map to look for the rioting graphic.

And this is a war weariness issues which causes unhappiness problems, but has a different cause than normal unhappiness.

check this thread out on causes and solutions:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127116&highlight=war+weariness

[Kuciwalker]

IIRC, under demo you go into anarchy if WW goes to a certain number, regardless of the actual happiness.

[Redstar]

thanks for the link.

I have checked my cities...i also made sure i have the riot notification on. No city has the riot icon and i do have the notification on.
(thought i do notice more and more people starving everywhere as the war goes on..which would indicate more entertainers having to be used. Though when i check random cities there seems to be no reason for this..as there are a lot more happy than unhappy people)


from the link i noticed this:

"Assume you sign peace when you just have gotten 100% ww in republic (121wwp) and keep out of his territory. Then you will lose 8 wwp the first turn, 7wwp the next. It will take 19 turns to get down to level 0, and 43 turn until the war is totally forgotten."

I had fought the americans 4 turns prior to launching against the aztecs (ima russian--and so would have thought they love fighting

I had thought war weariness becomes zero as soon as you declare peace. I guess not.

So i guess WW has been counted since the american war... which would make my war 30-40 turns. SO perhaps there is a sudden flip when you reach a certain number of turns at war...like the post above says.

It would be good to have some indication that this is about to happen though.

----
i am also wondering if rebels in captured cities have caused this. I have had to leave more and more cities able to riot for 2 and sometimes 3 turns now as my forces are now very stretched --and i can't afford to station 20 troops to pacify 10 rebels)

So can alot of rebel cities cause the civilization to collapse?

edit: corrections: i have 137 cities and do NOT have the sufferage wonder but i do have the rest.
i have 5 captured cities that are resisting

[Tattila the Hun]

I think rioting cities show up as red in the city list... Atleast in C3C. Don't remember about C3.

[Solomwi]

Re: Re: war leads to anarchy.how prevent or know its going to happen.

Originally posted by Dominae


One or more of your cities must have been rioting for multiple turns without your knowledge. Check the appropriate box in Preferences to be notified whenever a city riots. With 100 cities it's too much work to ensure no city ever riots, but it should not be too hard to ensure a city never riots for more than one turn.

It's not too much work, actually, Dom. Just go to the F1 screen and sort cities by happy faces. My empires are usually bigger than 100 cities, and doing it this way doesn't take long at all. Pre-sanitation, this lets you go ahead and rule out any city with six or more combined happy/content faces, and simply scroll by them, rather than waste time opening each one. You'll miss one every now and then, but overall it's a reliable method.

Also, to make sure you fix all the currently rioting cities, go to F1 and sort your cities by production, ascending (lowest at the top). Rioting cities produce zero shields, so they'll all be grouped right there together, plus the city names are in red.

[Redstar]

well as i have said, i have checked all cities... NONE were rioting.

All were happy...save those 5 resisting cities that have not come over yet.

[Dominae]

Re: Re: Re: war leads to anarchy.how prevent or know its going to happen.

Originally posted by Solomwi
It's not too much work, actually, Dom. Just go to the F1 screen and sort cities by happy faces. My empires are usually bigger than 100 cities, and doing it this way doesn't take long at all. Pre-sanitation, this lets you go ahead and rule out any city with six or more combined happy/content faces, and simply scroll by them, rather than waste time opening each one. You'll miss one every now and then, but overall it's a reliable method.

Yes, I do this too, but I was talking to the players who do not like going to F1 for a clickfest every turn.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Redstar
thanks for the link.

I have checked my cities...i also made sure i have the riot notification on. No city has the riot icon and i do have the notification on.
(thought i do notice more and more people starving everywhere as the war goes on..which would indicate more entertainers having to be used. Though when i check random cities there seems to be no reason for this..as there are a lot more happy than unhappy people)


from the link i noticed this:

"Assume you sign peace when you just have gotten 100% ww in republic (121wwp) and keep out of his territory. Then you will lose 8 wwp the first turn, 7wwp the next. It will take 19 turns to get down to level 0, and 43 turn until the war is totally forgotten."

I had fought the americans 4 turns prior to launching against the aztecs (ima russian--and so would have thought they love fighting

I had thought war weariness becomes zero as soon as you declare peace. I guess not.

So i guess WW has been counted since the american war... which would make my war 30-40 turns. SO perhaps there is a sudden flip when you reach a certain number of turns at war...like the post above says.

It would be good to have some indication that this is about to happen though.

----
i am also wondering if rebels in captured cities have caused this. I have had to leave more and more cities able to riot for 2 and sometimes 3 turns now as my forces are now very stretched --and i can't afford to station 20 troops to pacify 10 rebels)

So can alot of rebel cities cause the civilization to collapse?

edit: corrections: i have 137 cities and do NOT have the sufferage wonder but i do have the rest.
i have 5 captured cities that are resisting

I see a few possible misconceptions here.

1) WW is calculated separately for each civ you're fighting. If you've made peace with America, those accumulated WW points no longer contribute to unhappiness, and the effects of WW from the American war went away as soon as you made peace. Any unhappiness or anarchy you see now would be due only to WW from fighting the Aztecs.

2) Kind of tying in with the first one, making peace makes the effects of WW go away, but doesn't make the actual WW points go away (though it does trigger the process of shedding WW points). Only time at peace with that enemy makes the actual WW points go away.

3) WW points are not turn/time-dependent in their accumulation. You've read the article, so you've seen what causes them. If you were to, say, go to war with a faraway civ and neither of you ever saw the other's units, you could stay at war indefinitely, even in a democracy, with no ill effects.

4) As stated in the article, there are certain thresholds at which you get a "flip", but they're WWP-based, not turn/time-based. For instance, at 31 WWP under Republic, 25% of your citizens become unhappy. It doesn't matter if it takes you 50 turns to accumulate 31 WWP or if the AI takes two of your cities in the first turn, putting you over the threshold immediately.

5) If by rebels you mean resistors, no, they don't contribute to riots as long as they're resisting. Disorder is a purely happiness thing.

6) Disorder being a purely happiness thing, in a democracy, stationing troops in a rioting city won't have any effect. Troops in a conquered city will quell resistors, though, turning them into regular happy/content/unhappy citizens.

7) Resistors don't cause your government to collapse, AFAIK. Reaching a certain WWP threshold under a democracy is what does that, and WWP don't have anything to do with resistors.

8) If by rebel cities you mean rioting cities, yes, I think letting disorder go on for a certain amount of tim e will collapse a democracy, but I'm not sure if I'm right on this one, or if it's a Civ2 relic that I'm remembering.

[Solomwi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: war leads to anarchy.how prevent or know its going to happen.

Originally posted by Dominae


Yes, I do this too, but I was talking to the players who do not like going to F1 for a clickfest every turn.

Scroll-wheel fests are so much easier.

[Redstar]

thankyou very good points..and that clears up some stuff alright.

#8 though..by rebels i ment the dissenters not rioters.

---
So from this it seems obvious i crossed a threshold...of war weariness.

SO i go back to the..i wish there was some warning about how war weariness was coming along.

The only reason i mind anarchy so much is because there is so much darned pollution from allied nukes now..and the global warming effects are progressing.

Its gonna become critical and my workers are crap for 4 turns grr

======
PLus..if i switch back to demo when i am able..will i fall right back into anarchy the next turn?

should i go communism instead till the aztecs are wiped out?... in about 11-14 more years.

TIA

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
IIRC, under demo you go into anarchy if WW goes to a certain number, regardless of the actual happiness.

Yep, exactly. Doesn't matter if you've pacified them so they don't riot; they'll be smiling one turn, and then overthrowing the government the next.

This only happens under High WW govs (in the default rules, that's Democracy only).

Low WW govs (like Republic, and in C3C Feudalism) can get pretty bad WW, but won't go in to anarchy no matter how bad it gets, so you might consider leaving Demo alone and sticking to Rep if you want to fight wars.

[gunkulator]

I'm not sure if the AI is programmed this way or not, but it always seems that they're more willing to declare war on me when I'm in Democracy.