Forbidden Palace

[vmxa1]

Don't take this as fact, it is just my best guess. You can create an FP, if you have the required number of cities and no currently existing FP, regardless of how many you have previously built.

I think the FP is a valid structure for an MGL, as is a Palace.

Frankly I don't care much about the FP, it does so little, I just don't sweat it.

[pvzh]

Vmxa1, lets put it this way. It does more than University of the same cost , and can be build much earlier.

[Modo44]

Except if you are steamrolling over the AI right from the start. Then it's faster to build the units instead, go make them Elite, and only build (rush) the FP once you have an MGL to spare.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by pvzh
Vmxa1, lets put it this way. It does more than University of the same cost , and can be build much earlier.

Not sure that I agree, but it I have not tested to see it it is true or false.

The reason I suggest that is that many of those cities should not have a university either. The one advantage a university has is that you need one to be able to use a research lab.

If the game proceeds that far and you build the Internet, you get the free lab. So in that scenario the university may do more than the FP.

The FP is useful, but if it has to be built from scratch, it will take a very long time in most cities that you select.

[punkbass2000]

Not if you build second ring. It can easily be a 20-turn project or less. Building it afar does not have obvious or dramatic effects as it does not count as a new palace for OCN, only distance. IT does, however, increase your OCN and thus reduces corruption by like 10% across the empire or something. alexman's thread would have more specifics.

[vmxa1]

All I can tell you is I have beat the game on every level and often I do not bother to build one.

Now in the PTW version, it is huge. If you are using a Commerce civ, your OCN is quite large and you will already have enough cities going to make it not a priority to built it.

Playing deity or sid, I often do not even switch out of despot until late in the middle ages, just cannot afford the lost production.

What I am saying is not that the FP is able to give you a boost, only that I often do not want to stop to do it when it comes up. I am not concerned with a reduction in corruption (a small one) or an increase in the OCN. I am concerned with my current production in the core. I want units for war and settlers/workers.

I don't care about corruption in the cities that are coming, I care that they will increase my free support and take more land out of the AI's hands.

[punkbass2000]

I certainly do not doubt either your ability or the unnecessaryness of the FP, but I think it can be useful often, anyway. I'm playing a PBEM in RoR as Macedon and recently finished the FP on the East side of the Aegean, and it has dramatically increased the productivity of my cities over there, making them further less dependent on units from the Athens area, which take an ordinate of time to get there on land and the logistics of trying to ship are not convenient.

[Muad'Dib]

Golden Bear

I don't think that FP can be built a second time even if the first city is erased.

I don't think that a MGL can force build FP. Did this change in 1.22?

The Forbidden Palace can be rebuilt because it is a small wonder common to all Civs. Great Wonders cannot be, they are lost forever if destroyed with city.
Any small wonder can be rushed using a MGL (edit--ooops--) or SGL. Only a SGL can rush a Great Wonder. Both (MGL or SGL) can rush any other city improvement. Neither can rush units.



And in my case, I will only build the Fobidden Palace if there is a chance to build the Iron Works. Other wise it is not important to me.

[Arrian]

Wow, people not building the FP. I'm surprised.

Sure, it's not what it once was (vanilla/PTW), but it still can be pretty powerful.

-Arrian

[Golden Bear]

Oooooh. Glad I asked even though I look stupid doing so. Personally I like the FP enough to sacrifice a MGL to get it. When I plan my, er, expansion I like to look for fertile and productive areas where the FP would have good effect. Often they are too far away to build in a reasonable time frame.

I don't seem to have any problems with the AI civs offering me opportunities to make MGLs.

[Drakan]

Sir Pleb in his classic: Sir Pleb Going For Sid (10th of May 2.004 C3C v1.15) carried a research into FP placement and it's effect on corruption:


Highlighted three conclusions

1) FP is virtually useless in C3C v.1.15
2) It doesn't really matter where you place it.
3) What's really important is to build it ASAP for the opportunity cost lost in raising the optimum number of cities in the game and thus reducing corruption indirectly.

At the bottom of page 10; link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=81424&page=10&pp=20

(EDIT. The link works fine in all my computers, )

[Arrian]

I too often use a MGL to rush the FP. I consider that a good deal.

The trickier question, for me, is whether it's worth a SGL. FP for free right now, or insta-Leos (or any other valueable great wonder)? Probably insta-Leos.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

The link gives me an error.

In any event, I'm not surprised. That's basically what Dominae is saying.

-Arrian

[alexman]

Originally posted by Drakan
Highlighted three conclusions

1) FP is virtually useless in C3C v.1.15
2) It doesn't really matter where you place it.
3) What's really important is to build it ASAP for the opportunity cost lost in raising the optimum number of cities in the game and thus reducing corruption indirectly.

Isn't #1 contradicting #3?

If you read carefully, Sir Pleb doesn't claim the FP is useless, it's just not as powerful as he expected. But that's because he was used to the way it worked before the 1.15 patch.

Take it from the corruption geek: whoever doesn't build the FP is making a huge mistake. And pvzh is right: It's much better than a University because it affects not only the FP city and the surrounding cities, but all your cities.

[Muad'Dib]

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed this too. I've notice that once you do build the FP corruption tends to go up in all other cities that are far from the Palace & the FP.