Settlers and Airlift

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jaybe
It makes perfect sense (from a game design standpoint) to not be able to airlift settlers. Settlers are the most powerful unit in the game!

Not by the late industrial, they aren't. Resettling gaps in conquered territory isn't time-critical the way peaceful expansion is.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by hobbit1
I disagree some of the largest of transports can carry a company of armor

A single American C-5A only carries 2 or 3 M-1 (Modern Armor) tanks, which weigh 60-70 tons each. I consider C3 units to be roughly brigade in size. Currently, there are only about 50 C-5A's in service. While perhaps it could be done, it isn't. Instead, military equipment is stockpiled in strategic locations.

[Modo44]

Actually, by the Civ3 scale, one modern "unit" could easily make at least a division, if not a corps. Airlifting a whole armoured division does pose some problems, doesn't it? If so, the same problem would come up with 10000 people - a single settler.

The point is, in Civ 3 I never saw air transports getting shot down by the enemy. Being able to shift in any number of reinforcements to any airport is just too easy for my taste. And it comes way too early (got flight -> got airports -> got army anywhere in the world -> disband sea transports?). And it makes paratroopers a joke. Why bother, when you can pluck an airport and airlift tanks right away?

[hobbit1]

Well in other versions of CIV I have seen airlifts get intercepted if enemy aircraft are operating in the area. I dont think airports can replace transports as you can only airlift from a city once per turn, that makes 6 airports equal a transport. It also requires you to have an airport in the area you want to conquer, transports can hit any coast. The nice thing about Paratroopers, bomb a city till all units are gone then land troops near city, poof city is yours. Also Paratroops are good at cutting roads and destroying enhancements behind enemy lines just like history has shown us. I think if the scale is so big a unit is a division(I disagree)then the airlift capability should be on that scale.

[Kuciwalker]

In C2, it could happen. In C3 it does not.

[Solomwi]

Helicopter airlifts can be intercepted in C3, but that's just a tangent.

[gunkulator]

Yet another reason not to use helicopters.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by gunkulator
Yet another reason not to use helicopters.

Rebasings, however, can't be intercepted.

[Modo44]

hobbit1 ->

On the airlifting. Have you ever heard about the Americans airlifting armoured divisions to England during WWII? I didn't think so. And they did have airports, you know.

On the paratroopers. With a paradrop range of 8, my tanks can be as far as the paratrooper lands in 2-3 turns, 4 maximal. And they will munch anything on their way, because that's what they do basically. So I'd still rather have a tank rather than two of your funny guys, sorry.

[hobbit1]

hmmm I think all units have a place and use in CIV3. I think Paratroops usefullness is there to quickly get into rear areas not covered by roads and exploit damage bombers do to cities. In the 2-3 turns it takes you to get to a city it can be regarrisoned heavly. I think it is also not compleatly rational to assign our modern military capablities to CIV3. The game has concepts it covers in a general way and I dont think we can really try to figure those out. I will play the game with the rules I think work and you can modify them to suit your prefrences.

[bongo]

Originally posted by Modo44
...
On the airlifting. Have you ever heard about the Americans airlifting armoured divisions to England during WWII? I didn't think so. And they did have airports, you know.
...

Well, it all depends on how you choose to view 'airports'. WW2 airports was just fields, where they kept the grass down and the ground level and free of obstructions. In civ3, every city works as a WW2 airport as planes can be based in any city.

Civ3 airports on the other hand, can be viewed as not only a flat strip of land, but also all the cargo planes and infrastructure needed to transport a unit anywhere in the world.

Personally I rarely use aiports for strategic movement of troops anyway. That's what transports are for.

[Modo44]

Perfectly right, but only if you are talking about infantry.

For tanks and other heavy vehicles (mech. inf.) you need special transports. Too many to make such an operation reasonable, even for rich countries.

[bongo]

Makes you think they messed up the list of what's 'airliftable' and what's not.


The concept of needing special infrastructure(airports/airfields) to do large airlifts while fighters/bombers can land anywhere is good.


Mechanized units of the industrial/modern age in general should *not* be airliftable. I would remove artillery from the original list(and leaders/empty armies?), and add armor, modern armor, SAMs(?) and radar artillery to that list. Maybe mech.infs as well.

Maybe add some hideously expensive air-cargo unit to allow air transport of heavy units. A small wonder perhaps?

[shadow_fighter]

since airlifts can be intercepted, can paratroopings also be intercepted?

[Mad Bomber]

Sorry Shadow you are misinformed: Airlifts from airport to airport cannot be intercepted. Parra drops I am not sure about (but I suspect that they are) and Helo drops are able to be intercepted.


As for airlifting armor, this should be relegated to the modern age and should need a unit to do so. The C5-A Galaxy employed by the US can carry up to 2 M1A2 MBT's or up to 4 Bradley IFV's so its not impossible to airlift sizable armor but its not an efficient way to move them. Russia employs a much larger transport aircraft for use with their armored forces, so even this capability is not unique to the US. This ability will be further enhanced with the next generation of armored vehicles as they will be much lighter than their predesssors.