Anybody else find this as funny as I did?

[Theseus]

Jesu, I just realized that's 4-tile CP or higher... big frigging map.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Theseus
Jesu, I just realized that's 4-tile CP or higher

Only in the non-Iroquois lands.

[Tattila the Hun]

I CxxC city placing really all that effective?

[Solomwi]

Very effective, Tat. Until recently, I was skeptical, too, not wanting to give up my 100/120 shield metros in the late industrial age, but just one game forcing myself to use CxxC as the standard (while leaving room to deviate for overriding reasons) convinced me.

The first thing it did was cut down the time my settlers were moving to their locations. For this reason, and distance corruption, it also allows more productive cities earlier, which means more possible settler factories. I'm on a huge map with eight civs in this game, so making the most of limited space and using every tile wasn't my overriding concern.

Almost everything else pretty much flows from getting more cities up sooner. I was able to make a good bit of money and still pull ahead in tech by the end of the ancient (on Monarch). It also meant that 1 Mounted Warrior could cover several cities in defending from barbs, thus freeing up tforces for other things (like burning India to the ground ). Fewer workers are needed, though on this map that doesn't mean a lot aren't needed, because a) there are fewer tiles to improve and b) one tile can serve two cities, though not simultaneously (without using the exploit).

On corruption, I used to think "Pfft, one tile closer can't make that big a difference", but where it shines is when a given level of city is three, four, five or more tiles closer than otherwise.

Edit: Just a note that I can still get some 100/120 shield metros in the late game by reworking after RR, bringing some core cities down in pop and building others up accordingly. By 100/120, I mean a city that can hit 100 shields pre-Nuke plants and 120 post-Nuke plants, or 50 raw shields, to put it another way.

[alva]

Originally posted by Dissident
I tried to build statue of zeus in my last game even though it was already expired. I had nothing better to build . But I still failed in building it . The AI still pursued it, even after it was obsolete.

So? you did the same thing. This only proves that either the AI is good or you aren't. You decide...

[Dis]

Re: Re: Anybody else find this as funny as I did?

Originally posted by Kloreep


Won't you have to trade them Metallurgy? In Civ3 wonders don't expire until the owner has the appropriate advance (though I don't know the tech situation; maybe they're right behind you and it won't be a problem.)

Is this true? I had no idea. learn something new every day, as the saying goes.

[vmxa1]

Yes it is true a wonder that expires do to a tech such as SoZ or KT will work until the owner learns that tech. I have been a whole age behind the AI and it was still working.

While I agree the SoZ is less valuable on a huge map, to say it is not diserable seem way too strong. How about less desirable. The AC can be used for a number of things after they are obsoleted.

[Solomwi]

They are very nice indeed for worker roundup while tanks and cavs take care of more important business.

[Theseus]

And as MPs, and as foundations for fastmover Armies, and for pillaging, and for...

/me is a big fan of ACs.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Edit: Just a note that I can still get some 100/120 shield metros in the late game by reworking after RR, bringing some core cities down in pop and building others up accordingly. By 100/120, I mean a city that can hit 100 shields pre-Nuke plants and 120 post-Nuke plants, or 50 raw shields, to put it another way.

This is an interesting point that has not been extensively discussed (at least not that I remember).

I often find myself defaulting to 3-tile CP, just cause it is where I am most comfortable, even though I know that some sort of camp system might be superior over the long run.

I've lately been thinking of exactly what Solomonwi suggests... I've done it, as I am sure many of us have, but never really *systematically*, planned from the get go.

And I like the logic behind the suggested approach: Look at your CP in terms of raw shields, and which sites can get to what level of production when. I'm not sure I would just look to the 50s multiplier... 30s and 40s are important values too.

Hmmm....

Solomoning?

/me , Namer of CP Names

[Solomwi]

Now we just have to figure out what Theseusing is.

You're absolutely right that 30s and 40s are also important. In fact, 30s are more important for my late game than 40s. This is mainly for single turn cruise missiles in the modern era, and two turn MA/Marines. 40s are most important with freshwater (100 w/nuke plant). The 80 multiple is nice (3 turn SBs and single turn cavs, though that doesn't last long), but less important than the 60/100/120 mark, and even 90, for that matter, for single turn Inf.

I don't like planning it from the get go, although I keep an eye on it from the start. I find it best to start planning it in the middle ages, when the core has taken shape. Different early CP roughly along the same 3-tile pattern will tend to work just as well, only with different results on a city by city basis, so it's not important to get the precise CP from the beginning. In other words, you can let early game concerns dictate placement as much as before, and wind up with just as good a late core in the raw shield aspect.

The great thing about it is that you can build workers from the core cities to shrink during the runup to RR, and let them get the railnet up until some hospitals are in place, at which time they become your pop boost.

Maybe I should start a new thread about this.

[MotownDennis]

I don't think I agree that SoZ is less valuable on larger maps, due to the slower tech pace.

[spy14]

The slower tech pace dosnt make enough of a difference IMO... it reduces the effect of a larger map for sure, but SoZ still seems better on small maps.

[Solomwi]

I've changed my stance from earlier in the thread, and now see how much more powerful it can be on small maps. Getting 20-25 ACs is still nice and powerful, but not as powerful as 10-15 that can be your entire military, freeing up your cities for infrastructure.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Solomwi
snip

You know, I never even thought about making some of the core cities smaller later on, just thought that I'd have to abandon them, if I wanted massive amounts of shields...

Live and learn.

But doesn't the number of cities also effect corruption? And, do you consider any given trait to be more suited for this another? Agricultural?