Early game - when to switch govt?

[Cookie Monster]

Hi all,

I'm currently involved in a PBEM with 1 human and 4 ai players. the map is split into two large continents. I'm on one and my human opponent is on the other. I'm just about to discover feudalism and I have a question. I need professional help here folks.

I am the only civ still running despotism while everyone else from what I see is on monarchy. It is 370B.C. My question is this. When is a good time to switch governments? I'm currently at war with one of my ai neighbors. I have about 13 cities in place but none of them have libraries or markets yet. Been busy focusing on building up my military and temples.

What do I do now? Any advice is appreciated.

[Kloreep]

If you're going to switch to Feud, just go ahead so long as you won't lose unit production while in a war. You get 6 units supported per town (size 1-6), so assuming you haven't grown too many of your cities to city size (size 7-12) you should be fine there, which is the important thing.

Don't worry about whether you have many libs and markets when switching; Feud is better than Despotism in almost every way, including unit support if you have enough towns. Switch now unless you need production over the next several turns. Just watch your happiness while in war; Feudalism has the same War Weariness problems of Republic. But it's easier to deal with in Feudalism because you get up to 3 contentment points from Military Police. (1 more than in despotism, even. )



Monarchy can be a bit harder to transition to, but only because unit support per town is only 2, necessitating some size 7+ cities which support 4 units each. The only switch that can be hard to do is to Republic; you have to watch how many units you would be able to support (usually not many until you get some size 7+ cities) and you also have to prepare for the hit to happiness because of the loss of Military Police ability.

[Aqualung71]

It all depends really. Do you have Monarchy or Republic available? How long do you intend being at war? What level are you playing at and which civ?

As Kloreep says, Feudalism gives you better unit support, but because you need to keep a good part of your empire under size 6 to get the free support, over the longer term Monarchy is almost always better and has no war weariness. Republic can also provide a boost, but not before you've got a few size 7 cities and preferably some luxuries connected.

Of course, both Monarchy and Republic are optional techs, so unless you have these or can trade for them, your immediate choice is limited.

One piece of advice though - never switch governments during a war, unless you can end it quickly or have plenty of units to repulse any possible counter-attacks during the period of anarchy. And if you are building a wonder and are nearly finished, again, delay your government switch or you may miss out on it.

Depending on which civ you are playing,m it may also be worthwhile switching your Temple builds over to Libraries.

[Cookie Monster]

Good advice gentlemen, thanks.

Aqualung71:

Here are my choices -> Monarchy haven't discovered any other government. Game is set at monarch level, I'm the Chinese.

I can definately end the war immediately as I am winning it so maybe now is the time to do that and switch to monarchy.

[Dauphin]

I find Monarchy to more useful than Republic if you have any reasonable size of army or have a war on the horizon. The extra trade from Republic is too easily eaten up by unit support unless you have a larger number of trade multipliers or corruption reducers (marketplaces, libraries, courthouses). Plus Monarchy's martial law can save money that would be spent on keeping Republic's people happy.

[Dominae]

Switch immediately to Monarchy.

[Vince278]

I've spent entire games on Republic.

[Robert]

I always take Monarchy as soon as it's available.

[dannubis]

monarchy all the way !!!

[Dis]

I always take Republic over monarchy. Unless I'm in a war or something. But I never research monarchy anymore.

[Solomwi]

In the safest piece of advice I've ever posted:

WHAT DOM SAID!

[Dominae]

Why is turning into a Monarchy versus Republic debate? Given Cookie Monster's situation, I think the clear option is to switch out of Despotism right away. Or are you Republic supporters implying that he should wait to trade for or research Republic and bypass Monarchy entirely?

[Solomwi]

CM, generally the best move is to switch out of despotism the turn you learn a new government. There are a few exceptions to this, though:

1. Close to finishing a wonder in a somewhat tight race. That is, a race in which you know you have the wonder if you just keep on at this pace, but switching will cause you to lose it. Typically not a big issue, for me, as I don't even worry about wonders in the Ancient (ex. SoZ).

2. As has been mentioned, at war and can't afford the downtime, production wise. One more reason it's best to fight a war in your enemy's borders.

3. You've decided, as Dom mentioned, to go directly to Gov't A and for whatever reason get Gov't B instead. Of course, then a re-thinking is needed. If it still looks better to wait, so be it.

4. You're a masochist and would also enjoy being stuck on a 100% tundra island and play out such a start on Sid.

Obviously, being religious means switch ASAP in 99% of situations.

[Aqualung71]

Under the circumstances, I would almost certainly switch to Monarchy immediately unless there was a way of getting Republic very quickly and my empire was setup correctly to take advantage of a Republican governmet (which is unlikely).

Bottom line - if you have Monarchy and Feudalism available, switch to Monarchy.

This will enable you to start irrigating those grasslands (bnous grasslands first!) and boost your growth rate....using those super charged industrious Chinese workers

However, one proviso: you've said you are winning the war. Depending on how far the war is from your lands, it may be worthwhile delaying your governmeny switch and continuing the war to take a few more AI cities....this will weaken the AI considerably and provide you with a stronger core to build up in peace time. Being Militaristic, you may even generate some MGL's using this strategy, and then you can rush build your FP. Of course, if you have a strong enough army that you don't really need to build any more units to continue the war, switch to Monarchy immediately anyway At monarchy difficulty level, your anarchy shouldn't be too long.

[Vince278]

I ignore the Monarchy track and beeline for Republic. I usually can trade for those ignored techs anyway.