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  • Fort Cities

    There are five types (maybe more ) of Forts (temporary cities) that can be implemented in Civ 3, each with a different purpose: Offensive Forts, Chokepoint Forts, Culture Bomb Forts, Stealing Forts and ZoC Forts. Each has a different purpose and can be very useful against opponents, especially of the human sort.

    Chokepoint Forts

    These kinds of forts are some of the more obvious ones. They exist in order to prevent access between two points of a continent and can only be crossed when attacked. They are perfect locations for cities, as they are highly defensible and MUST be attacked in order to be passed.

    Zone of Control Forts

    These forts are designed to assert control over a particular region on the battlefield. They can be bypassed, unlike chokepoint forts, but they provide an excellent reinforcement stationing and healing point. With Walls and a Barracks on a hill they can be very tough nuts to crack. And since the the units are within a city an enemy won't be able to see what you have there and will be attacking (or bypassing) blindly.

    Stealing Forts

    What these are designed for is to steal something from the enemy... whether you intend to use it or not depends on your situation.

    They can be used to steal resources or roads/RRs, and can be very crippling when used at the right time. They can be landed by naval invasion or surprise to steal resources or block retreat access.

    The prime example of these in use was during the Gathering Storm-Vox Controli war in the Apolyton Intrasite PTW MP Demo Game I. GS landed two Settlers, one to steal Vox's iron and the other to cut off Vox's main Immortals army in the south from their core in the north (building a city near a chokepoint). This stole Vox's iron (and ability to upgrade more Immortals) and their only north-south road, meaning there was only a skeleton force remaining inside Vox's core to defend with.

    Culture Bomb Forts

    These are forts placed with the intent of flipping an opposing civ's city. Most often used against AI cities placed in inopportune locations, they aren't very effective against human players, who either build culture improvements when they see this tactic, or they will simply conquer the city.

    Best performed by Religious or Scientific civs that can produce cheap Temples and Libraries, the goal is to steal as much of the other city's culture (by one or more cities) as possible, giving the greatest liklihood of a flip.

    Offensive Forts

    Also known as "Combat Settlers," these are the kingmakers in the Civ 3 world. They can completely open up a front to invasion where an opportunity did not previously exist. While these forts can be used as ZoC or Chokepoint Forts, their primary purpose is in stealing culture and roads/RRs from the enemy. This gives extra mobility to offensive units, allowing them the ability to attack cities and/or units that were previously safe from attack.

    I will use a visual example to illustrate the power of this strategy.

    Here is a screenshot of a situation where an Offensive Fort is about to be sprung.



    Here you can see the Chinese are bearing down on the Romans (no UUs). The Chinese have 10 Swords, 5 Horses, 5 Catapults, 4 Spearmen, a Settler and a couple Workers in its stack on the wines, with the Romans having 8 Swordsmen and 2 Catapults next to Viroconium (the target army).

    The Roman Sword stack appears to be out of harm's way because of the cultural boundary… only the Chinese Horses should be able to attack… but that is before the fort city is built.



    Now that the Offensive Fort has been built, some of the Roman culture and a Roman road has been "stolen" by the Chinese… meaning the Swordsmen and Catapults now have the ability to attack the Roman army instead of just the Horsemen. The difference between these two situations is quite clear… 5 Horses against 8 Swords and 2 cats can be pretty ugly, whereas with their entire army able to strike the Chinese should be able to destroy the main Roman army.

    This case can be further twisted, assuming there was a road on the tile with the wines. This would allow the Settler to sneak from out of sight of the Romans, building the Fort the same turn. If your opponent is able to see the Settler a turn in advance, then they may catch on to what you're doing. Having roads already in place (for example, when you're fighting in the core of your opponent where a lot of roads exist) can really throw a wrench in a good defense.

    A single city has completely changed the outcome of the war. Used in conjunction with other Offensive Forts, a civ can be brought to its knees quite quickly, and this is their best application in order to give the attacker the advantage.

    Offensive Forts are best when used against other human players who will maneuver their large stacks instead of hiding them or sending them out piecemeal like the AI. When combat frequently involves tactical withdrawals and general jockeying for position and the better ground, having a trick like this up your sleeve really opens up the offensive options for a civ, especially in the early game when mobile units are harder to come by and not as tough as their 1-move counterparts. However, do not discount their effects later in the game - every RR tile you grab is one extra completely free tile for movement purposes and can often open up cities to attack that were not previously.
    Last edited by Jon Shafer; April 20, 2004, 13:45.

  • #2
    i quite often build forts to grab some land with a resource on it i want. Although i don't quite know what to do with the fort then. Usually i build some walls, barracks and possible a harbor, but thats it... . Occasionally i let it grow to a city, but then it wouldn't be a fort anymore, would it?

    what do you do with your forts? do you disband them when the have no longer any purpose? or do you cultivate them into big cities?



    -----
    btw, what terrain graphic mods are you using?

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    • #3
      Build a worker or a settler, and disband them.
      "No Comment"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MattPilot
        i quite often build forts to grab some land with a resource on it i want. Although i don't quite know what to do with the fort then. Usually i build some walls, barracks and possible a harbor, but thats it... . Occasionally i let it grow to a city, but then it wouldn't be a fort anymore, would it?

        what do you do with your forts? do you disband them when the have no longer any purpose? or do you cultivate them into big cities?
        Depends on their placement... if they're in a good (usable) spot you can leave them, if not, then disband them with a Worker or Settler as H_E said.

        btw, what terrain graphic mods are you using?
        Snoopy's graphics, this irrigation, and these borders.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MattPilot
          i quite often build forts to grab some land with a resource on it i want.
          Speaking of which, this is a type of fort I overlooked, thanks for mentioning it.

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          • #6
            Not sure, if this one is true. Its my observation. Huge, 31civs, ptw 1.27f, emperor, pangea. After destroying persia (Me and all other AIs ), there were a lot of free spaces. I saw that most AI placed a city with at least there was a tile gap between each culture border. Then, I place a city next to the border to steal a lux that I needed. It had no effect in AI attitude (appearantly). Then the war with France. Again a lot of space available. This time, I saw egypt do the samething to me. He stole my rubber
            Is this some kind of revenge? If I hadnt done it, would have AI still done the stealing thing?
            Game is just for Fun. Dont play the game if its not fun for you - binyo66 :)

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            • #7
              I doubt the AI is that smart....or devious
              So if you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy and some taste
              Use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste

              Re-Organisation of remaining C3C PBEMS

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Trip

                Speaking of which, this is a type of fort I overlooked, thanks for mentioning it.
                My favorite type of "fort" city, in fact.

                AI vs. AI wars typically result in gaps in cultural borders, and I can usually squeeze in a city or two to grab a few luxuries I don't have.

                In my experience, there is a better than 50/50 chance that the AI will attack such a city, either right away (1-5 turns after its founding) or in the near future, so it's best to come prepared.

                ...

                I don't know if this counts as a seperate category, but there is also the "cuture bomb" town, built to maximize one's chance of flipping a key AI town. I used this in my most recent game and succeeded in flipping an iron town. As a bonus, the culture bomb town also grabbed control of a luxury source.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                • #9
                  how do you culture bomb a town? Rush a temple and library and a few other culture generating buildings? If so, in maybe 5-6 turns you'll have a town that generates 15 culture points per turn max - how does that flip a nearby town that already has some culture and continues to grow?

                  just curious

                  ----

                  btw, the AI does seem to like revenge tactics. In my modded game i have commandos (weak, invisible, and hidden nationality). The AI likes to build those and often used them in wars. But during peace time they mostly left me alone. Though when i took my own commando and captured one of their workers, an enemy commando came back and attacked one of my workers 2 turns later. Since then i haven't attacked them with hidden nationality units and they haven't attacked me.

                  was quite interesting

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                  • #10
                    I like the concept of a "fort city", a city that is used for strategic reasons in addition to the usual production and income purposes.

                    I agree that a major category is the "culture bomb". I use it fairly often, especially when some other civ puts a single city on my continent. A culture bomb is a nice passive-aggresive move. It doesn't always work, but I find it very emotionally satisfying when it does.

                    Similar to the original example of a fort city which was used for access is the "leap frog city". This comes up in the age of railroads. With fast attack units (cavalry and MA), taking a city surrounded by rairoads can open that fast attack to nearby cities. For instance, my Squad of Doom sits just on the border and can reach the nearest city in three moves of unaccelerated movement. Each member in the stack attacks the city one at a time. When that city falls, its new borders extend my borders. The rest of the stack (with no movement points expended) uses the rail system to move to the extended border at 0 movement cost. There are still no movement points expended. Then the stack is again within range to take a city. If I have planned this out, I can take three or four cities with a big, big stack and a little bit of luck. One of the advantages of this method is that it can be used to reduce the culture flip pressure on the newly captured cities by reducing the amount of overlap from the opponent's as-yet-uncaptured cities. Another advantage is my perception of the emotional shock value imposed on my opponent by losing so many cities at once. I know the AI doesn't react that way. But why let such knowledge get in the way of a good gloat?

                    Another fort city category is the "irrigation pump". A city on a hill can get water from a wet region to a dry region. I don't expect that to be news to many of you, but I like adding to the list of "fort cities". I look forward to hearing other examples. This is interesting.
                    If you aren't confused,
                    You don't understand.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MattPilot
                      how do you culture bomb a town? Rush a temple and library and a few other culture generating buildings? If so, in maybe 5-6 turns you'll have a town that generates 15 culture points per turn max - how does that flip a nearby town that already has some culture and continues to grow?

                      just curious
                      A major factor in the chances of flippage is how many tiles within a city's full radius are within the other civ's cultural borders.

                      Thus, it's not just about having a single city nearby with lots of culture. In fact, that doesn't really do much on its own. But if you can surround the target city with 2-3 towns that EACH have a temple & library, now you're cooking with oil.

                      In my current game, I built cities to the north and south of this particular city, and had temples up in both before the AI managed to get one in its city. It helped that I was playing India, a religious civ, and the "enemy" was Portugal. Since the northern culture bomb town was roughly 4 tiles south of Portugal's capital, I also rushed a library there at great expense (~250 gold in the ancient era is a lot) to help stave off culture pressure from Lisbon and also to grab the spices source that was two tiles NE (9-9) of my city.

                      Once both cities hit 100 culture (influence 3 border expansion), the target city was almost entirely enveloped, with about 1/2 of its full radius of tiles falling within my borders. It flipped soon thereafter. The reason I didn't build a 3rd or even 4th city is that the land was only 3-4 tiles wide there, so 1 city to the north and 1 to the south was not only all that was needed, but all that was possible.

                      I actually spaced the southern city futher than is ideal for a bomb, but that was because it was close enough to my capital that I knew it would be reasonably productive and thus I cared about not crowding it, and also because I built it on a hill in case the other civ got uppity.

                      -Arrian
                      Last edited by Arrian; April 20, 2004, 12:06.
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                      • #12
                        hmm... thanks for explaining

                        so what your saying is you had to wait till you had 100 culture points in one town? .. With a temple & a library that would of taken 20 turns. Wouldn't it be easier to just attack the city, wait 5 turns and then make peace?

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                        • #13
                          I don't actually recall how long it took, but I'm sure it was more than 20 turns. If it had taken much longer, I would probably have attacked.

                          But early on, I had very little military, and then when I did build up to do a rush (with archers, mind you, since I had no iron), it was aimed in the other direction: at the Chinese, who had ivory. I focused on them, grabbed the ivory (and most of their empire) and built the SoZ.

                          Once I had SoZ, I got around to thinking about hitting Portugal... and then the city flipped.

                          When I finally did attack Portugal, it was actually because I wanted to take over an offshore island they had colonized. This island, on which I now have 8 cities, contained the world's supply of 3 luxury types (incense, silks, dyes). No civ started there. The Portugese got over there first, since I have a tendency to forget about proper naval exploration. So I had to go in guns blazing. I've never seen that before, but I like it.

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                          • #14
                            Trip, where can I get that border graphics mod?
                            One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
                            You're wierd. - Krill

                            An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Trip earlier in THIS THREAD

                              Snoopy's graphics, this irrigation, and these borders.

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