Modifing pop-rush benefits

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by player1


Hmm...

So by rushing granary, you get 2 unhappy pop for 40 turns and faster growth of the city (which won't be utilized due to added unhappines).

Well more realistic may be 1 rush + build. Also the double rush may well prove to be doable with a nice start.

[player1]

Well, 1rush + build will save 10shields compared to standard rules.

I'm not sure that it will make too much difference.

[alexman]

Originally posted by player1

So by rushing granary, you get 2 unhappy pop for 40 turns and faster growth of the city (which won't be utilized due to added unhappines).

I believe you get 2 unhappy citizens for 20 turns, as long as you have at least two citizens as laborers. Did this change?

Also, don't be so sure that the faster growth won't be utilized. A Granary pop-rush might be just what a high-food, low-production city needs to become a 2-turn Worker pump, and a couple of units for MP take care of the unhappiness for 20 turns...

[player1]

Originally posted by alexman
I believe you get 2 unhappy citizens for 20 turns, as long as you have at least two citizens as laborers. Did this change?

Actually, it's 20 turns for 1 pop.
40 turns for second,
60 for third
and so on...
(or regaining happines by 1 pop per 20 turns)

[alexman]

OK, you made me have doubts so I quickly tested it.
I whipped two out of four citizens and increased the luxury slider so that the other two citizens could continue to work the land. After 20 turns, everyone forgot the unhappiness.

So nothing's changed since vanilla Civ. The unhappiness is 20 laborer-turns per citizen whipped.

The unhappiness duration is cumulative only if you don't have enough laborers to actually be unhappy. So if you pop-rush 3 citizens but have just one citizen working the land (with the rest entertainers), you will get 60 turns unhappiness as you say. But if 3 citizens are working the land, you get just 20 turns of unhappiness.

[player1]

Originally posted by alexman
OK, you made me have doubts so I quickly tested it.
I whipped two out of four citizens and increased the luxury slider so that the other two citizens could continue to work the land. After 20 turns, everyone forgot the unhappiness.

So nothing's changed since vanilla Civ. The unhappiness is 20 laborer-turns per citizen whipped.

The unhappiness duration is cumulative only if you don't have enough laborers to actually be unhappy. So if you pop-rush 3 citizens but have just one citizen working the land (with the rest entertainers), you will get 60 turns unhappiness as you say. But if 3 citizens are working the land, you get just 20 turns of unhappiness.

Strange, I just ran a test before posting my last post whcih confirmed what I said.


Well, I'll doo anmother round just for a case.

[DrSpike]

It has always been the way Alexman suggested. I doubt it has changed. Think of it as unhappiness/people turns. There are 40, and 2 citizens, so they share the total for 20 turns. You are correct it would be 40 starting from 3, since then there would only be 1 citizen to bear the 40 turns.

[player1]

Hmm...

But I know when I rushed Numidiam Mercemary at size of 3 and got 2 unhappy faces, that after 20 turns I only regained one happy face.

Strange, I think I'll test it again.

[DrSpike]

If your city was size 3 before the rush then what you say could be consistent with how it works. I don't know your luxury/MP situation.

After the 2 rushes you only have 1 citizen to bear the 40 turns, and what is more unmodified he is *double unhappy* since the way the unhappiness stacks with low popuations changed around 1.17f. Modified he could be content or even happy.

Ergo after 20 turns with no city growth he might be only unhappy, but you could see no change.

With growth the overall length would be something like 25 turns, with 2 citizens sharing the last 15 turns.

Hopefully that helps; your discrepancy is almost certainly from either not calculating the unhappiness/turns correctly, or perhaps not taking into account double unhappies.

Also, if you started from 5 there would be 3 persons to bear the 40 turns

[player1]

Not 2 rushes.

One rush that drains 2 pop points.

[player1]

Now I tested it agian.

I rushed Numidian Merecenary at 4 pop city (with one or two shields in queue).

I also noticed that you can't rush 2 pop on same thing if you pop is lower then four.


Then I got 2 pop city with 2 extra unhappy faces (monarch).

After some time it become 3 pop city with extra 2 unhappy faces (total of 3 unhappy).

After the 20 turns from rush passed it left with one extra unhapiness.

And then only after next 20 turn later it became normal.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by player1
Not 2 rushes.

One rush that drains 2 pop points.

There's no difference. My points are still correct I think.

However, I can't explain your test. I can't see why your results are different from Alexman's. His are consistent with how it worked in vanilla.

[DrSpike]

By the way, it is easy to incrementally rush as long as there is something that is 30 shields (or 20 normally). You can rush, switch, and rush again.

Also after 20 turns what happens when you click the unhappy person?

[alexman]

Player 1, were both of the remaining citizens assigned to work the land during the first 20 turns of your test, or was one of them an entertainer?

[player1]

All land workers.

I had spare warriors to keep happines and to switch them in and out to test unhappiness.


[QUOTE]DrSpike:
Also after 20 turns what happens when you click the unhappy person?[QUOTE]

I had some unhappiness from overcrowding and some because of rushing (but one less from rushing).