Conquest: Playing through our history...

[Dis]

with regards to Mayan civ in mesamerica. I think in this scenario, the jungle offers better benefits than in the normal game (though I think production is still a problem)

[Theseus]

Who knows the most about the WW2 Pacific scenario?

We (Paddy the Scot, Godking, jshelr and I) are answering a challenge by CFC in PBEM as the US and allied forces, and I would like to enlist advisors... I am new to PBEMs, and haven't really played the Conquests since C3C came out, so all help would be much appreciated!!

The thread in the PBEM forum is:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122047

[joncnunn]

In Meso America,

Incas start in jungle along a river, really good start.

Jungle is 2/0/0, can be mined (from turn 1), and can be irrigated (requires a second era tech), and no disase.

This effectively makes jungle like grassland no shield, except it takes 3X as long to improve.

Note that planting a city in jungle still converts it to grassland, and if you really, really wanted to, you could clear the jungle. Bad idea though.

Originally posted by Dissident
with regards to Mayan civ in mesamerica. I think in this scenario, the jungle offers better benefits than in the normal game (though I think production is still a problem)

[joncnunn]

Okay, I see War Elephants now (turn 21) and partually see your point.

But I still think my tactics in landing in North Africa to Carthage in early game were correct with the exception that the turn after upgrading my forces there to Legionaries II and converting the MGL to an Army I should have abandoded that town and should have also razed the city that didn't autoraize (3rd loss in Carthage for them)

Carthage has now lost five cities in North Africa in all, and I may still have enough forces there to sack more. In the mean time, I did take your advice to ally with the Celts when Celtic units starting attacking me via Celt territory with a RoP and also signed a similar deal with Egypt so they can also engage them in North Africa.

The Celts promptly had a city of there's sacked to the ground by Carthage, but that's okay with me! Their first Gallic Warrior just arrived to the front.

I've also started up the Citizen factories in Italy now that my GA is over and I have several cities stuck at size 6.

Originally posted by gunkulator

But in general I don't bother fighting Carthage on their homeland because it's too much of a logistical nightmare. Carthage has a bigger and faster navy for starts. Second, they usually have swarms of War Elephants in Africa to focus on your invasion. They are likely to get their GA from Rome if Rome invades.

[gunkulator]

You definitely want the Celts to act as a buffer between you and Carthage. Those War Elephants are fast and if you don't kiss up to the Celts right away, Carthage will get a ROP and an alliance with them and you'll have 20 turns of Elephant and Gallic Sword attacks on your northern border.

If you really want to attack Cathage, then razing is probably better than holding. I played a ROR game where I tried to attacked Carthage asap with about 10 Legion II's. I had some bad luck with the RNG and got slaughtered after taking the city of Cathage. I lost 7 Legions while Carthage lost only 2 War Elephants (damn retreat!). I ended up abandoning the city. After that it occured to me that I was wasting my time and units on these guys when the northlands are so open and so poorly guarded.

[OzzyKP]

I agree with Gunk. My first game I took sicily and then took Carthage and a few other cities around there. I tried my best to stay allied with the Celts, but that alliance would come and go. So often I had to split my focus. I stayed allied with the Greeks the whole time, so that helped.

But I just couldn't make any progress with the Carthaginians. With Carthage in my hands, I had enemy on both sides. I pushed east, and after a while I ended up getting all the Cart cities east of Carthage, but it was slow going as they kept hammering me in Carthage. So I spent most of the game conquering half of the Carts. I lost on points to the Persians.

Whereas in the second game I took Sicily, Corsica & Sardinia and just defended them well, then I was able to have a nice, one front war against the Celts. I expanded quickly into the nice land NE of Italy before the Goths or Greeks did. I wiped out the Celts entirely, and was about to start on the Carts in Spain, but then the Greeks declared on me. So I had to move everyone east to deal with them, but it worked out because I wiped them out.

It was a squeaker even then. The Persians had a nice lead on me. I had to really throw everything I had at the Scythians and the Carts, and reached the point threshold like a turn or two before time ran out.

Both games were on Emporer.

[joncnunn]

War Elephants are no faster than Heavy Calvary, and that's going to be my main offense. Legions II for protecting them.

That remains me, I need to wake up Ceasar Augustus in Rome and assign him 3 Heavy Calvary.

Yes, if your going to strike Carthage with Legions do it before they have War Elephants. Much easier on Monarch level than Emperor. Probably wouldn't work at all on Emperor considering the AI tech rate if the AI wasn't in love with reseraching techs allowing new govts.

[joncnunn]

You know, Rise of Rome victory conditions allows much less room for error than the other conquests.

It's fall back is histographic score, which heavily benifits Persia, and there's no instant elimination mode unlike Fall of Rome / Shogun / Middle Ages, you have to take every single city of a civ that's too far ahead in histographic civ to remove them from the competion. Plus those other conquests VPs are based on unit kills and cities transfering hands, which is also something humans are better at than the AI. [And if wonders were included, I'd be far ahead on those built in Italy during my GA alone.]

(Under Shogun rule, Carthage empire would have instantly collapsed when Hannibal was killed; under middle ages rule, Carthage empire would probably only have 1 King unit left (in New Carthage); under Fall of Rome rules, Carthagan empire would have collapsed the same turn the War Elephants arrived. [That's when I took their 8th city])

I'm still confident that I'll continue my streak, and win this conquest on my first try. I've won several epic games in vanilla on the Emperor level and a couple of epic games with agricultural civs on Demigod, so I'm really playing below my level on all these conquests on Monarch.

I've also won lots of SMAC games on the Transcend level prior to discovering there was a bug giving the humans low cost structure buildings on that level at the patch level I was using.
And I have pulled off the conquer the world (minus one city) + build the space ship on Emperor in Civ 2 and conquered the whole world on Diety level in the Jihad one as Mohamed with plenty of time remaining.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Theseus
Who knows the most about the WW2 Pacific scenario?

We (Paddy the Scot, Godking, jshelr and I) are answering a challenge by CFC in PBEM as the US and allied forces, and I would like to enlist advisors... I am new to PBEMs, and haven't really played the Conquests since C3C came out, so all help would be much appreciated!!

The thread in the PBEM forum is:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=122047

Uh, hellllllooooo... a little help, please?

[OzzyKP]

Sorry, I haven't made it that far. Still working on the Japanese scenario.

I think I've finally got this one set though. I'm the...Ori? Oro? Uro? I dunno, kinda orangish in the middle. I started it just messing around, wanting to see if I could take someone out in the opening turns with my shogun. I didn't. But I harrassed them enough, they never expanded, just built more defense. So I was able to expand into their land and get off to a good start.

I've been competitive with tech for most of the game. I started to slip right around Feudalism. I reckon the AI made better use of the new gov't and had more contacts and could trade more. Soon I was behind. But! Wonder of wonders, I got the Great Library. After that, I was absolutely set.

No need to research, I just churned out cash, switched to war-time mobilization and churned out units. All I have left is the Mori to my south, and I've got a killer stack on the way. I'm bored with taking cities, so I'm just gonna take their cap and let the empire fall. Then I'll expand a bit south, conquer a bit north, and I should be ok.


(except another neighbor built that UN replacement, and beat me in a vote. I'll have to reload and... undo that wonder. )

[Proserpine]

Originally posted by joncnunn
With the Celts two starting workers sold for a song on turn 1 to me, I think the Celts will have a delay hooking up their Iron... (Macedon, Egypt, and Persia each sold a worker to me as well at rock bottom prices; Persia did get a GPT deal for the Spice.)

Sorry, but this fortress Silicy tactic strikes me too much like policies of the other major political party in the US and also like certain countries in Europe.

I much prefer the take the war to the enemy's homeland. (Carthage in this case.) Only reason I bothered taking the islands first is that they aren't much of a detour. (And Sardena does have a luxary.)

The block-in the Macedons is a better idea, but I'm in a Golden Age (you'd have to purposely avoid it playing Rome), Rexing can and should wait til it ends and I've already planted the existing citizens on and near the Southern Alps. (Two along the obvious river locations, another on a hill adj to 2 Iron north east and the remaining one filling out Italy proper.) I have a few legions being used as scouts in that area you mentioned. I actually think the Celts are more likely to expand into that territory than the Macedons because of the locked war between Macedon & Persia, which if the score is accurate, Persia seems to currently be doing better.

You can also get Massilia (Marseilles) in trade from the celts. I'm never sure whether that's an exploit or a legit. tactic.

[Proserpine]

Originally posted by gunkulator
I forgot to mention the other Carthage island with the luxury. Yeah, you want that one too.

But in general I don't bother fighting Carthage on their homeland because it's too much of a logistical nightmare. Carthage has a bigger and faster navy for starts. Second, they usually have swarms of War Elephants in Africa to focus on your invasion. They are likely to get their GA from Rome if Rome invades.

The barbarians tribes, otoh, only loosely control their lands and have sucky units. You need about 5 Legions (type II or III) plus a few for homeland defense to conquer all of the Celts.

The name of the game is land and population and the easiest pickings are to your north.

Carthage is a problem but once you have Sicily it's easier. Build a bunch of galleys and take enough units to take and hold Carthage. Then expand out from there. Once you get to Imperialism, cash rushing allows to to use taken cities in Africa to fuel further conquest in a virtuous circle. Carthage quickly crumbles to the point where you can be taken a couple of cities every 2-3 turns. An army is helpful for the bigger cities, but not essential I find. They never seem to have that many Elephants. If you have an army available and hold Spain, take the extreme Western City in Morocco as well.

[conmcb25]

I agree taking Cathage is not that difficult.

get Scilily

Take the city of Carthage, fend off the counterattacks and consolidate and reorganize.

Then the rest of north Africa is generally a cake walk.

[joncnunn]

Bumped to note victory in Rise of Rome, completing the conquests.

[Dis]

cool

I just had to check back in this forum. It's dead lately, hardly that many threads on page 1 anymore. Oh well.