Conquest: Playing through our history...

[joncnunn]

I wish there was a multiplayer multiteam democracy game for one of these conquests on Demigod or above with the human teams playing the worst positions adviable.

Based on AI results:
Mesopatiama : Greece, Phoenica
Rise of Rome : Greece, Carthage
Fall of Rome : Celts, Sassanids
MesoAmerica : Aztecs
Middle Ages : Denmark, Bryzanties
Age of Discovery : Dutch, Mayas, Incans
Japan : Any civ caught on a smaller landmass
Napolean : Ottoman Empire
WW II in Pacific : Dutch, UK

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I wish there was a multiplayer multiteam democracy game for one of these conquests on Demigod or above with the human teams playing the worst positions adviable.

Based on AI results:
Mesopatiama : Greece, Phoenica
Rise of Rome : Greece, Carthage
Fall of Rome : Celts, Sassanids
MesoAmerica : Aztecs
Middle Ages : Denmark, Bryzanties
Age of Discovery : Dutch, Mayas, Incans
Japan : Any civ caught on a smaller landmass
Napolean : Ottoman Empire
WW II in Pacific : Dutch, UK

Interesting idea. If you get one going lemme know

[OzzyKP]

Ok, inspired by this thread I finally tried the scenarios, and they are pretty good. I've gone through them one by one. All on Emporer. Some I had to try two or three times, but I'm up to Japan now. I just can't crack that nut.

Mesopotamia - 7377 - Sumerians

I first tried this as the Hitties, I was doing good, but the Sumerians got most all the wonders and were largest, and ended up winning on points. So I tried the Summerians, and saw they started right next to the Babylonians, so I wiped them out real early, and just kept pushing against my neighbors till the end.

Rise of Rome - 7662 - Romans

This one was fun, but tough. First game I went after the Cathaginians, but because of the seperate land mass it was tough to gains there, or to build off of them. I lost on points to the Persians. Second game I captured the islands from the Carts and then did my best to ignore them. I expanded east quickly, and conquered the Celts to extinction. Greeks declared on me, so I pwned them. It was a squeaker at the end. Just barely beat out the Persians to take the win.

Fall of Rome - 49412 - Celts

Tried twice, both with Celts. I like them because you have a secure base to start from. Close loss the first time, close victory the second.

Middle Ages - 42328 - Franks

Tried first as England, but proved too difficult to expand off the island. (stupid me made my army too large to fit on a ship). I tried Franks and beat down the Spanish, Cordovans, and Burgundians. I never took my relic to Jerusalem (i think it died in the black death)

Mesoamerica - 2493 - Inca

Boring/easy one city culture win.

Age of Discovery - 49167 - Spanish

Cool idea for a scenario, but too easy. I never went to war once, just built some colonies and popped out treasures.

Sengoku

Damn, I can't get this one. I'm always way behind in tech, and I can't expand fast enough, and end up at war with too many people. Grrr.

[joncnunn]

On the Japan one, try the Green civ that starts along the river on the west coast, about a third of the way south. It's perhaps in the best position. The high quality of land will also allow you to get a tech lead with realtively few cities and the locations of the resources are such that your a favorite to get 1 (or more) of each stragtic resources and one of most of the luxaries.

It's also a very good position for getting contacts for increased trade tech oppertunities.

On avoiding war, when you see a SoD coming your way when at peace use the mobile road block tactic. You can push back the war out of the game entirely. Also just have the river cities worry about inferstructure. The others should build units instead.

[Dis]

for Sengoku I took the civ that starts furthest south on the mainland. Very easy win. I never had to watch my back because I knew the other ai civs were incapable of significant amphibious assaults (the only scenario I have seen good amphibious assaults is Napolean- they will drop of 10 units sometimes!)

In any case, I just kept pounding and pounding (after I got iron) and took over the entire continent. then I went for the island ones.

I need to play this one at a higher difficulty though. It was far too easy.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Proserpine


Particularly if you (Dissident) went after Egypt/Persia. Those guys are hard to get to from Rome in sufficient numbers, you either have to go through Scythians (in roughly the Caucasus) or via Macedon (Greece), or across the sea (which is hard as Carthage basically rules the waves. Or take Carthage, then its possible.

I actually went accross north africa (after taking over carthage). I usually ferried my troops with ships straight south to the road network (I finish up the gaps). Taking out Egypt is real easy. But it does take a while to get all those troops in position. Tedious moving them one by one (I sometimes use stacks in this scenario because of this)

[joncnunn]

Bump to note victory in Middle Ages as Turks (I hit the VP limit when I had "only" 19% of worlds territory.) and my start of Rise of Rome as Rome.

I think Carthage won't last nearly as long against me as they did against the real Romans.

[gunkulator]

Rise of Rome is fairly easy to win if you can keep the Celts from beating up on you at the beginning.

Take Sicily from Carthage first. Then fortify the living bejeebees out of it. Carthage will then ignore Italy and only attack Sicily. It's during this time that you are most vulnerable to Celtic attacks on your northern border. If you can, get the Celts to attack Carthage.

Meanwhile, your Citizens should work on blocking in Macedonia to keep them out of the fertile lands to the north. There's a luxury up there you want.

Once Sicily is stocked with enough Legions to fight off any Carthaginian invasion, turn your attention to the Celts. Destroy them utterly to gain all of Gaul, England and most of Spain.

Kick Carthage out of Spain. They only have a few small holdings.

Now take on the Goths. They are wimps. By then you should have enough land and population to win.

Scythia, Persia and Egypt are too far away to hurt you for most of the game. Macedonia can be a problem so treat them nice.

[joncnunn]

With the Celts two starting workers sold for a song on turn 1 to me, I think the Celts will have a delay hooking up their Iron... (Macedon, Egypt, and Persia each sold a worker to me as well at rock bottom prices; Persia did get a GPT deal for the Spice.)

Sorry, but this fortress Silicy tactic strikes me too much like policies of the other major political party in the US and also like certain countries in Europe.

I much prefer the take the war to the enemy's homeland. (Carthage in this case.) Only reason I bothered taking the islands first is that they aren't much of a detour. (And Sardena does have a luxary.)

The block-in the Macedons is a better idea, but I'm in a Golden Age (you'd have to purposely avoid it playing Rome), Rexing can and should wait til it ends and I've already planted the existing citizens on and near the Southern Alps. (Two along the obvious river locations, another on a hill adj to 2 Iron north east and the remaining one filling out Italy proper.) I have a few legions being used as scouts in that area you mentioned. I actually think the Celts are more likely to expand into that territory than the Macedons because of the locked war between Macedon & Persia, which if the score is accurate, Persia seems to currently be doing better.

[gunkulator]

I forgot to mention the other Carthage island with the luxury. Yeah, you want that one too.

But in general I don't bother fighting Carthage on their homeland because it's too much of a logistical nightmare. Carthage has a bigger and faster navy for starts. Second, they usually have swarms of War Elephants in Africa to focus on your invasion. They are likely to get their GA from Rome if Rome invades.

The barbarians tribes, otoh, only loosely control their lands and have sucky units. You need about 5 Legions (type II or III) plus a few for homeland defense to conquer all of the Celts.

The name of the game is land and population and the easiest pickings are to your north.

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I wish there was a multiplayer multiteam democracy game for one of these conquests on Demigod or above with the human teams playing the worst positions adviable.

Based on AI results:
Mesopatiama : Greece, Phoenica
Rise of Rome : Greece, Carthage
Fall of Rome : Celts, Sassanids
MesoAmerica : Aztecs
Middle Ages : Denmark, Bryzanties
Age of Discovery : Dutch, Mayas, Incans
Japan : Any civ caught on a smaller landmass
Napolean : Ottoman Empire
WW II in Pacific : Dutch, UK

The interesting thing is, that those Civs the AI cannot handle at all are the strongest in the hands of the human player...

6 of the conquest where played with all available Civs in the RBCiv SG series at CFC, at pretty high levels.
Judging from this experience (and my own, I played most of the conquest repeatedly, some of them with ALL Civs, even the normally unplayable ones!), for the human above Emperor:

Mesopotamia :
Easiest: Phoenicia (early contact monopoly, SEA gives an amazing commerce/research bonus in the first era, lots of coastal cities)
Hardest: Medes (UU requires Iron, but the next Iron source is near Sumeria, no coastal city with production)

Rise of Rome :
Easiest: Macedonia (the BIG problem even for Rome is preventing AI Persia to reach the Domination level, and while the Greeks have a tough start, they can cruise to victory after that)
Hardest: Carthage

Fall of Rome :
Easiest: Celts (You're safe. Impossible to loose. Was won on Sid!)
Hardest: None really. Both Romes are hard...

(Mesoamerica: Didn't play that more then once, but Aztecs and Inca are clearly easier then Maya, since their starts are by far better)

Middle Ages :
Easiest: Danes (definitely the strongest Civ if played correctly; won on Deity when the 2nd strongest Civ had about 2500 out of 30000VPs), Byzantium (was won at Sid; also, this is the by far strongest AI Civ, the only one that can really win that)
Hardest: None really; Celts are tough

Age of Discovery :
Easiest: Portugal (Sid)
Hardest: None really. All European Civs are a cakewalk even at Deity, and the Natives are all doable.
Impossible: Iroquois

Napoleonic Europe :
Easiest: France (Sid); Britain and Russia are also fairly easy
Hardest: Prussia; currently trying to win with Sweden on DG, will try Portugal after that - compared to them, Prussia is a cakewalk
Impossible: Dutch

WW2 :
Easiest: Japan
Hardest: China
But all Civs are doable at Sid here. Dutch as well, but you won't contribute much to victory, except occupying and holding VP locations in Commonwealth territory

[joncnunn]

Get to Carthage much faster, and it's much easier.

Wiped out the last of the Carthage navy same turn I took over Carthage (Either 300 or 295 BC) (It's Galley was off the coast of Silicy : but couldn't land and I had my own now empty Galleys ready.)

Haven't seen a single War Elephant yet. Worst unit I saw was a NM, and that was no match for Legions I. (I now have Legions II, my troops didn't damage the baracks and so I upgraded them in Carthage the following turn.)

Haven't seen a single War Elephant. That unit might actually require the tech I'm currently reseraching (it was a 2nd Punic War unit after all) that also provides a better mobile unit than standard horsemen, in which case I dought I won't be encountering them at all.

Oh, in middle ages I gave the Rus a very bad GA; they lost all but 2 cities during their GA and would have lost the other two as well in a few more turns if my conquest of them wasn't interupted by reaching the score limit.

Macedon has very bad odds surviving, the Persians have bribed every single civ (with possible exception of Carthage) to declare war on them. Egypt doesn't matter, but Macedon was having a hard enough time just holding off the Persians and will now face Scavian riders on their northern frontier in a few turns as well. (My Legions acting as scouts spoted them.)

Luxary type your refering to North of Macedon is Dyes; I'm getting that from the Persians. It's closest to Goth territory, and my money is on Goth being the first civ to plant a city there.

Originally posted by gunkulator
I forgot to mention the other Carthage island with the luxury. Yeah, you want that one too.

But in general I don't bother fighting Carthage on their homeland because it's too much of a logistical nightmare. Carthage has a bigger and faster navy for starts. Second, they usually have swarms of War Elephants in Africa to focus on your invasion. They are likely to get their GA from Rome if Rome invades.

The barbarians tribes, otoh, only loosely control their lands and have sucky units. You need about 5 Legions (type II or III) plus a few for homeland defense to conquer all of the Celts.

The name of the game is land and population and the easiest pickings are to your north.

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by Doc Tsiolkovski

Age of Discovery :
Easiest: Portugal (Sid)
Hardest: None really. All European Civs are a cakewalk even at Deity, and the Natives are all doable.
Impossible: Iroquois

WW2 :
Easiest: Japan
Hardest: China
But all Civs are doable at Sid here. Dutch as well, but you won't contribute much to victory, except occupying and holding VP locations in Commonwealth territory

On Age of Discovery, it's ironic you rated Iroquois as impossible, the AI Iroquois was far more effective keeping the AI europe civs out of NA than either the Incas or Mayas were.

AI English had their head handed to them by the AI Irqouis.

On WW II: I didn't find China hard at all; just mobilize for war on turn 1, forget about non military improvements and just build lots of tanks and inf units and kick Japan out of mainland Asia. Then just hit return a few turns.

[joncnunn]

I'm not sure why the Aztec AI had so much problems in MesoAmerica myself; replay showed Maya founding a bunch of cities past both minor civs, and then Maya taking one Aztec city after another. If the cultural victory requirements had been higher, the Mayas may have been able to finish wiping out the Aztecs before the game ended.

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Sure, the AI Iroquois in AoD do well, so did we in our SG. However, since the Iros have no access to the cultural/sacrifice techs, it is absolutely impossible to reach the VP limit before one of the Europeans...

China in WW2: As said, they are not difficult, but the other 3 are eaven easier...